D&D General The Player's Quantum Ogre: Warlock Pacts

[Bae'zel]

I feel like this debate is veering into the general “GM best practices around trust, fairness and properly reading the room”.

After 25 years of DMing, I personally don’t like using meta currencies to control the ebb and flow of DM “interference”. However, I feel that they are likely a fantastic tool for training newer DMs (like training wheels) to help them constrain their “interference”, or at least use better narrative timing.

I loved the Cypher System’s take on this, as well as Apocalypse World’s Moves. I think that this stuff can really help DMs learn the ropes.

As someone said earlier, some a-hole people will make awful calls as a DM due to personality or inexperience, regardless of the rules. But these conversations are helpful, I think.

Getting back the topic at hand, yea, I think that DMs who routinely target certain classes with extra intervention, but ignore others, need to re-evaluate things a bit. Be fair and make sure everyone is okay with it. Maybe the Fighter class, usually exempt from this stuff, SHOULD have stronger ties to a Fighter’s Guild or mercenary band? Know what I mean?

Fair’s fair, some players may WANT the extra attention, right? I admit that I like the Warlock the most BECAUSE of the extra narrative opportunities it presents over the other classes. If the others had such narrative possibilities, I’d shop around a bit more.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Agreed, but acknowledging that also opens up some other potential can of worms when it comes to what is appropriate action for the GM roleplaying as the cleric's deity, particularly when the player chooses to roleplay in a way that goes against the edicts or will of their god. Different settings handle this differently. The gods are pretty hands-off in Eberron, for example.

So here is my next hot take in my quest to share opinions that will undoubtedly make @CreamCloud0 sad:

Considering the sort of game that D&D has become, it should potentially move away from the Cleric as the god class; instead, maybe something more akin to the White Mage from Final Fantasy or the Priest from WoW would arguably be more conducive for modern D&D. This is not to say that the game should move away from gods and religion.

And I say this as someone who plays mostly clerics, druids, and paladins in D&D.

i have no issue with making the cleric more of a 'white mage', i don't know why you would think it would? unless that was merely a ping to the wrong person or if you are referring to my response to your proposition of 'mechanically distinguishing the classes' mentioned in the wiz/sorc/lock thread(wasn't it?) my objection to that was the focus on exclusivity of spell schools (which can be both inconsistent and indistinct at best) rather than any sort of thematic narrowing.

 

[Aldarc]

i have no issue with making the cleric more of a 'white mage', i don't know why you would think it would? unless that was merely a ping to the wrong person or if you are referring to my response to your proposition of 'mechanically distinguishing the classes' mentioned in the wiz/sorc/lock thread(wasn't it?)

I seemed to voice opinions about changing classes that displeased you. But I'm glad to hear that you have no issue with making the cleric more of a "white mage."

my objection to that was the focus on exclusivity of spell schools (which can be both inconsistent and indistinct at best) rather than any sort of thematic narrowing.

I'm not sure what you are talking about with the "exclusivity of spell schools," as I talked nothing of the sort when talking about the new hypothetical classes in that thread. I did, however, invite you to ask me for clarification about that for a more fruitful discussion, but you never took me up on that offer. Instead, it looks like you preferred to make unfounded assumptions of your own devising about my potential setup. If you can keep your assumptions in check, I'm still open to conversation.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I seemed to voice opinions about changing classes that displeased you. But I'm glad to hear that you have no issue with making the cleric more of a "white mage."

I'm not sure what you are talking about with the "exclusivity of spell schools," as I talked nothing of the sort when talking about the new hypothetical classes in that thread. I did, however, invite you to ask me for clarification about that for a more fruitful discussion, but you never took me up on that offer. Instead, it looks like you preferred to make unfounded assumptions of your own devising about my potential setup. If you can keep your assumptions in check, I'm still open to conversation.

i fully admit i may have misconstrued your suggestions at the time, my lack of response was less due to wanting to let the assumptions stand and more just a preference to walk away and cool off from arguments when heated combined with the fact that so many topics are active on enworld that i just forgot to go back to that offer or felt the topic had already been passed when i did remember.

 

[Aldarc]

i fully admit i may have misconstrued your suggestions at the time, my lack of response was less due to wanting to let the assumptions stand and more just a preference to walk away and cool off from arguments when heated combined with the fact that so many topics are active on enworld that i just forgot to go back to that offer or felt the topic had already been passed when i did remember.

No problem, and I appreciate your honesty. I think that's a healthy practice, and I commend you for it.