Pathfinder 2E The playtest is here!!

[Kaodi]

Come on, Paizo, tomorrow is Monday so hit us with a dragon preview! Or better yet - just release the PDFs two days early, .

 

[mellored]

ETA: Just caught myself up on the multiclassing thread on the Paizo boards. My enthusiasm just took a nosedive. You can no longer be a Fighter x/Wizard y; You will be a Fighter x with some wizard tacked on, or a Wizard y with some fighter tacked on. Essentially, multiclassing is an archetype and dipping is dead.

Eexcept, you still kinda can.

You can be a fighter with X Fighter feats and Y Wizard feats.
And many class features are now feats, so you can mix and match.

 

[Charlaquin]

Come on, Paizo, tomorrow is Monday so hit us with a dragon preview! Or better yet - just release the PDFs two days early, .

Pretty sure it’s going to be Spell Lists. We’ve seen it mentioned in several previous posts that they’ll go into more detail on spell lists in a later blog, but they haven’t done such a blog yet, and at this point they’re out of later blogs.

 

[houser2112]

You can no longer be a Fighter x/Wizard y; You will be a Fighter x with some wizard tacked on, or a Wizard y with some fighter tacked on. Essentially, multiclassing is an archetype and dipping is dead.

Eexcept, you still kinda can.

You can be a fighter with X Fighter feats and Y Wizard feats.
And many class features are now feats, so you can mix and match.

Not really. You can take the feats that they publish, but they don't compare well to the actual class features. Look at how these feats gimp you:

BASIC WIZARD SPELLCASTING
Archetype
Prerequisites Wizard Dedication
Add two level 1 spells to your spellbook. You gain a single level1 spell slot that you can use to prepare a level 1 spell from your spellbook. At 6th level, add two level 2 spells to your spellbook, and you gain a level 2 spell slot that you can use to prepare a level 2 spell from your spellbook. At 8th level, add two level 3 spells to your spellbook, and you gain a level 3 spell slot that you can use to prepare a level 3 spell from your spellbook.
Even though you can cast spells, the spell level of your cantrips and arcane powers is half your level rounded up.

ADVANCED ARCANA
Archetype
Prerequisites Basic Arcana
Gain one wizard feat. For the purposes of meeting its prerequisites, your wizard level is equal to half your level.
Special You can select this feat more than once. Each time you select it, you gain a new wizard feat.

Not only are you dependent on the feats as they are written against the features themselves, but you are constrained by how often you get feats to gain those "features". You also can't abandon a class to go in a different direction.

 

[Charlaquin]

Not really. You can take the feats that they publish, but they don't compare well to the actual class features. Look at how these feats gimp you:

How is that gimping? Remember, you’re not giving up full class levels for these, just class feats. These seem very strong compared to the class feats we’ve seen previewed.

Not only are you dependent on the feats as they are written against the features themselves, but you are constrained by how often you get feats to gain those "features".

That’s accurate. YMMV on how big of a deal that is.

You also can't abandon a class to go in a different direction.

To be fair though, how often did players actually do that in the previous system, unless they couldn’t continue in a class due to an alignment shift? It also left you with an underpowered character most of the time.

 

[MoonSong]

How is that gimping? Remember, you’re not giving up full class levels for these, just class feats. These seem very strong compared to the class feats we’ve seen previewed.

However by an strict reading of the feat, if you are a bard or sorcerer, or elf with cantrips, and take the basic wizard spellcasting, all of your cantrips lose strength by half.

Even though you can cast spells, the spell level of your cantrips and arcane powers is half your level rounded up.

Your cantrips, not "your wizard cantrips". If you have cantrips from another source, those lose effectivity too!

To be fair though, how often did players actually do that in the previous system, unless they couldn’t continue in a class due to an alignment shift? It also left you with an underpowered character most of the time.

That is about the only reason I multiclass, except when I was trying to go for mystic theurge. Changing lanes was my favorite way to multiclass.

 

[Charlaquin]

However by an strict reading of the feat, if you are a bard or sorcerer, or elf with cantrips, and take the basic wizard spellcasting, all of your cantrips lose strength by half.

Your cantrips, not "your wizard cantrips". If you have cantrips from another source, those lose effectivity too!

Half your level rounded up is full Cantrip progression. Cantrips scale to the level of the highest spell you can cast, and you gain new spell levels every other level (2nd level spells at 3rd level, 3rd level spells at 5th, 4th level spells at 7th, etc.) So not only does multiclassing not slow down your main class’s Cantrip progression, it gives you full-speed Cantrip progression for the added class.

That is about the only reason I multiclass, except when I was trying to go for mystic theurge. Changing lanes was my favorite way to multiclass.

That’s fair if that’s what you like to do. We have different anecdotal experiences of this style of multiclassing. However, I would describe the style as a trap option for those who aren’t intimately familiar with the system. It’s very easy to accidentally make an underpowered character this way if you don’t know what you’re doing, and I think removing that risk is worth the tradeoff of removing the option of lane-changing through multiclassing for those who do know what they’re doing. Especially since retraining is a thing, so lane-changes are still possible that way.

 

[zztong]

I will eagerly download the pdfs, but I will have to be content living vicariously through you guys, since there's little chance I'll get to play it; my group just isn't all that enthused to leave 5E behind.

It looks like I'll get an opportunity to try it out. Of the three PF1 games I've been involved with, one is staying PF1, one looks to be going to try 5e, and the last will try the PF2 playtest.

 

[zztong]

Not really. You can take the feats that they publish, but they don't compare well to the actual class features. Look at how these feats gimp you: Not only are you dependent on the feats as they are written against the features themselves, but you are constrained by how often you get feats to gain those "features". You also can't abandon a class to go in a different direction.

Don't forget the Ability Score Prerequisite. You need an INT 16 to pick up two cantrips per day.

 

[Charlaquin]

Don't forget the Ability Score Prerequisite. You need an INT 16 to pick up two cantrips per day.

And one level 1 Spell per day. And one level 2 spell per day once you hit 6th level. And one level 3 spells per day once you hit 8th level. For one Feat. And you get the ability to take more Feats that give you multiple spells per day at appropriate levels. With the only prerequisite being one ability at a score you can easily achieve in up to 3 abilities at first level.