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The Point of Masterwork Armor?

JohnSnow

Hero
Gloombunny said:
Um, what does the example on page 275 have to do with it? That example features a fighter wearing +4 warplate. Nobody's disagreeing about what kind of AC boost a character gets from +4 warplate. The example does nothing at all to prove or disprove the existence of +4 regular plate.

It proves that +4 Warplate isn't just +4 Plate with a fancy name. It's Warplate armor (+11 equipment bonus to AC) with a +4 magic enhancement. Total AC boost = +15.

And nothing says you can't put a +4 enhancement on regular plate armor. You'll just be giving up +3 to your AC by having +4 Plate instead of +4 Warplate.

Why someone would make it is another question entirely. Unless maybe they don't know HOW to make Warplate?
 

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Let me see if I understand correctly. You can buy/acquire/steal:

Plate, AC +8
Plate +1, AC +9
Plate +2, AC +10
Plate +3, AC +11
Plate +4, AC +12
Plate +5, AC +13
Plate +6, AC +14

Warplate +4, AC +15
Warplate +5, AC +16
Warplate +6, AC +17

Godplate +6, AC +20

Correct?
 

Gloombunny

First Post
JohnSnow said:
It proves that +4 Warplate isn't just +4 Plate with a fancy name. It's Warplate armor (+11 equipment bonus to AC) with a +4 magic enhancement. Total AC boost = +15.
Yes, but... the post you were saying is wrong says that too.
 

bardolph

First Post
Loincloth of Armour said:
Let me see if I understand correctly. You can buy/acquire/steal:

Plate, AC +8
Plate +1, AC +9
Plate +2, AC +10
Plate +3, AC +11
Plate +4, AC +12
Plate +5, AC +13
Plate +6, AC +14

Warplate +4, AC +15
Warplate +5, AC +16
Warplate +6, AC +17

Godplate +6, AC +20

Correct?
Correct.
 

Andor

First Post
Just in case anyone hasn't had an aneuryism yet I should point out it's technically impossible to create the masterwork armours.

The 'Enchant item' ritual requires the base item. Which you can't aquire becuase it doesn't come in unenchanted varieties.

It's like someone wrote Catch-22 on a Moebius strip.
 

hong

WotC's bitch
Andor said:
Just in case anyone hasn't had an aneuryism yet I should point out it's technically impossible to create the masterwork armours.

The 'Enchant item' ritual requires the base item. Which you can't aquire becuase it doesn't come in unenchanted varieties.

It's like someone wrote Catch-22 on a Moebius strip.
I am sure that if people can solve the problem of the bag of rats, they can solve this as well.

Any luck finding a game of 4E yet?
 

Lurker37

Explorer
JohnSnow said:
And nothing says you can't put a +4 enhancement on regular plate armor.

Nothing except the 4E math, which this would break. (Heavy armour has to gain 2 points of AC each tier to keep pace with the +4 to int/Ref a light armour wearer can get, and the +4 to primary attack stat all classes get.)

Oh, and the official WoTC PHB Faq found under the help section on their website.
 

Gloombunny

First Post
So like, masterwork heavy armor gets a bigger boost than masterwork light armor, to compensate for the increased Dexterity or Intelligence the light-armor classes will have at those levels.

What does this mean for star-pact warlocks? A starlock will probably start out with a decent Int, but to keep her attacks strong needs to bump both Constitution and Charisma. Should you rotate your bumps to give each stat 2/3 of the love, or dump one of the two stats and select a mix of star and fey/infernal powers to suit, or just make sure to start with Str 12 and grab chain proficiency after your paragon bump?
 

fullchromelogic

First Post
Loincloth of Armour said:
Let me see if I understand correctly. You can buy/acquire/steal:

Plate, AC +8
Plate +1, AC +9
Plate +2, AC +10
Plate +3, AC +11
Plate +4, AC +12
Plate +5, AC +13
Plate +6, AC +14

Warplate +4, AC +15
Warplate +5, AC +16
Warplate +6, AC +17

Godplate +6, AC +20

Correct?

incorrect, you can buy/find/make/steal all of these

Plate, AC +8
Plate +1, AC +9
Plate +2, AC +10
Plate +3, AC +11

Warplate +4, AC +15
Warplate +5, AC +16

Godplate +6, AC +20

From the PHB FAQ (availible at http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1396)

These types of armors are explained on page 212 of the Player’s Handbook. They are Masterwork armors and cannot be purchased. They serve as the base armors for creating magic armors with higher enhancement bonuses. For example, if your hide armor is +4 or +5, it is Darkhide armor. You would then use the base stats for Darkhide armor. If the bonus was +6 or greater, it would be Elderhide armor.

To be fair, the PBH does not specifically disallow things like +4 plate, or +6 warplate, but the excerpt seems to imply that they don't ever exist
 

Lurker37

Explorer
Andor said:
Just in case anyone hasn't had an aneuryism yet I should point out it's technically impossible to create the masterwork armours.

The 'Enchant item' ritual requires the base item. Which you can't aquire becuase it doesn't come in unenchanted varieties.

It's like someone wrote Catch-22 on a Moebius strip.

I personally think they dropped the ball here.

The RAW make two assumptions that need some sort of setting justification to work in game:

1) No-one enchants normal-grade armour past +3
2) No-one wears Masterwork armour which has not been enchanted to an appropriate level

I can see several ways around this, but they'd all require house rules.

Why no +4 standard-grade?

Solution A: Enchants past +3 require a minimum grade of armour for the enchant to take. Lesser armours either don't accept the enchant or cannot survive the enchanting process.

Solution B: The upgrade to masterwork is a side-effect of the enchantment ritual. Assuming you are of high enough level to have learned the technique, you buy the components required to upgrade a normal suit, and do the final infusion/assembly/tempering as part of the Ritual. (This also solves 2)

Why no unenchanted Masterwork?

Solution A: Masterwork armour is in some way unsuitable for use until you enchant it with a +4 (or +6) enchant.

eg: "Yup, this is a set of godplate, alright. Of course, the joints won't actually move until you enchant it. HEY! Don't try to bend that Feyweave! It's rigid as a board until you enchant it! bloody elves...."
or
eg: “Of course they only come in size 0000! It’s easier to store and carry, and you resize it to fit once it’s enchanted!”

(size 0000 is for newborn babies, for those who don't get the joke)

Solution B: Masterwork sets exist. However, they are prohibitively expensive for unenchanted use, primarily because the masterwork AC bonus does not kick in until the set is enchanted to the required level. Until a sufficiently-powerful enchant is applied, they function as standard-grade armour only.

Solution C: Masterwork armour has an intrinsic +4 (or +6) enchantment when it is made, and furthermore is unusually receptive to the first enchantment ritual used upon it, so that the ritual requires fewer components than usual. As long as it is not marred by battle prior to enchanting, it counts as its full purchase value (rather than 20%) for the purposes of reaching the required component value for the ritual.

This only counts for the first enchant upgrade, however. If a set of masterwork that has already been upgraded from plain +4 (or +6) is re-enchanted, then normal enchantment costs apply.

(The reason Solution C gets so complicated is to preserve the rules for how much enchanted armour costs, while still allowing PCs to enchant a set of masterwork themselves.)

These are all house rules, given as examples of the sort of justifications the RAW seem to require here. I really wish they'd included them in the rules, rather than just saying "+4 or higher is masterwork, +6 is superior masterwork, deal with it!"
 

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