The Possibility of "Too Fantastic" Fantasy

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

I was reading through Worlds and Monsters and one of the things that struck me was the oft repeated design intent of making the game "more fantastic". One section speaks specifically of throwing out historical/mythological earth inspired elements in favor of purely designed ones, suggesting that the "Earth well had run dry". And on the surface, I kind of agree -- or, at least, I tend to think that big cool ideas are often big and cool.

It's worth pointing out that WotC is explicitly trying to get closer to Earth mythology. The Feywild, for instance, is there specifically because they thought prior editions couldn't do Celtic Fae or Grimm's Fairy Tales style horror well.

It's really only direct historical or cultural analogues they are trying to avoid. And even there:

The explicit example was that they were cool with a Reptilian civilization with an Egyptian theme.

What they were not cool with a nation called Aejypt that's just like Egypt except the mummies are alive! Some of them! the one's of Pharoahs!

Which is fair since most mythologies try to avoid that too. Satyrs aren't really like anything the Greeks actually encountered. At the least they're fantastic enough that even when you try to make them 'real' like Robert Graves did you actually end producing bitchin good fantasy.

Even where they do have analoques they're creative. Centaurs could be viewed as a plains-people analogue but that wouldn't explain the wild Centaur/wise Centaur division in the mythology or the fact that they weilded big clubs rather than bows and lances.

 

[The Little Raven]

People don't "run" or 'worldbuild" WoW, though. They just play it. That's why the comparison doesn't apply, and what's acceptable for WoW may be folly for core D&D.

http://forums.white-wolf.com/viewforum.php?f=51

Head on over to the WoW RPG forums and tell all those people that they don't "run" WoW. Tell them their experiences have no comparison to the experiences of core D&D players.

Can you at least try and tone down the elitist vibe when you dismiss other people's tastes as irrelevant?

 

[rounser]

Head on over to the WoW RPG forums and tell all those people that they don't "run" WoW. Tell them their experiences have no comparison to the experiences of core D&D players.

Where are the DMs then?

Can you at least try and tone down the elitist vibe when you dismiss other people's tastes as irrelevant?

That "elitist vibe": It's all in your head. I'm just arguing against what is IMO a poor choice of direction for core D&D. I even explain why that might be so.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Where are the DMs then?

I think Mourn was talking about the PnP version of WoW which does indeed have DMs. As well as a huge portion of reprinted SRD.

That "elitist vibe": It's all in your head. I'm just arguing against what is IMO a poor choice of direction for core D&D. I even explain why that might be so.

I liked your original point, though I did put forward a complication, but I do have to say that even if you did it inadvertantly you did come off a little dismissive.

 

[thatdarnedbob]

http://forums.white-wolf.com/viewforum.php?f=51

Head on over to the WoW RPG forums and tell all those people that they don't "run" WoW. Tell them their experiences have no comparison to the experiences of core D&D players.

Can you at least try and tone down the elitist vibe when you dismiss other people's tastes as irrelevant?

I'm pretty sure he was talking about the MMORPG WoW; you know, the one everybody else thinks of first when you say WoW. It seems that you deliberately misinterpreted that in order to get a cheap shot in.

 

[The Little Raven]

Where are the DMs then?

Why don't you ask over there? The forums are active. A new book comes out in June.

That "elitist vibe": It's all in your head.

You're the one dismissing the opinions of other gamers because they like a particular property as if they don't even exist ("Where are the DMs then?"). Sounds pretty elitist to me.

I'm just arguing against what is IMO a poor choice of direction for core D&D. I even explain why that might be so.

Yeah, because you're (but you say "we're") not interested in playing in their world. But you aren't necessarily representative of the average player, since campaign settings and adventures (pre-generated world materials) are so popular, and new players don't really worldbuild when learning a game.

 

[The Little Raven]

I'm pretty sure he was talking about the MMORPG WoW; you know, the one everybody else thinks of first when you say WoW. It seems that you deliberately misinterpreted that in order to get a cheap shot in.

When presented with a link to a well-known pen-and-paper RPG company's forums, he dismisses them as if they don't exist either or he didn't even bother to check some facts before continuing with his argument against the MMO (which I obviously wasn't talking about). And anyhow, he's dismissing the tastes of a large and disparate group of people that are not normally drawn into fantasy RPGs as if new blood (especially from a desirable demographic for the company and the game's continued growth) is unnecessary.

 

[rounser]

I think Mourn was talking about the PnP version of WoW which does indeed have DMs.

Cute. Cheap trick for him to try. Completely irrelevant, too.

Mourn: Give up, I was talking about the MMORPG. A WoW PnP setting is like any other specific setting with regard to the core - it's not in the core so you can ignore it.

I'm sure you'll keep harping on that note, though. People have already seen through your trick though, and described it accurately as a "cheap shot", so why keep up the facade?

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Cute. Cheap trick for him to try. Completely irrelevant, too.

Mourn: Give up, I was talking about the MMORPG. A WoW PnP setting is like any other specific setting with regard to the core - it's not in the core so you can ignore it.

I'm sure you'll keep harping on that note, though. People have already seen through your trick though, and described it accurately as a "cheap shot", so why keep up the facade?

Maybe it's not relevant to another one of your points, but if you're saying that people don't run or worldbuild off of WoW's fiction, and we are talking about fiction here, then it seems like a pretty convincing piece of evidence for Mourn's counter-point.

It may have seemed like a cheap trick, but given that Mourn clearly pointed to a White Wolf forum he might be forgiven for thinking that he didn't need to clarify.

 

[The Little Raven]

Cute. Cheap trick for him to try. Completely irrelevant, too.

It's a cheap trick because you're incapable of reading, much less following a link which quite obviously says WHITE WOLF, a well-known pen and paper RPG company? WoW.