The problem of keeping magic items scarce...

I also use a home-brew with a lot less magic items. The PCs manufacture items they want themselves; items they want just don't fall into their hands. The items that show up make them wonder where they came from, as it sometimes indicates someone else is out there producing them to help their enemies.

A few more solutions:

1. Anti-magic monks that disarm, sunder and grapple opponents using magic items. Add a squad of them for each PC and destroy a few items! Sure the players won't be too happy about the deliberate destruction of items they have meticulously quested for, but you will be!

2. A better solution might be using creatures that have magical effects or special attacks or qualities that aren't bound to an item.

3. Let them use the magic items to better help their efforts and/or have an item given up as part of the story. Replace a lost item with something that is more permanent, like an ability score boost, to compensate for the lost item. It will mean less magic items for others in the world to keep track of, plus the character will be less dependant on things and more dependent on abilities.

4. Wear them down. Stage a series of shorter battles that aren't hard alone, but pack them into the same adventure with no chance for resting. The magic items will help them but enemy strategists know that not everyone can keep slugging it out forever.

5. Sub-adventure: target of a cat-burglar. If the PCs aren't pressed for time while traveling, have a cat-burglar swipe an item that a character relies on most. Finding out how they did, tracking down the thief, and getting the item back becomes a quest itself. Such a quest might involve more bluff, diplomacy, intimidate, and sense motive than anything else. Plus a character with the Track feat gets to shine too.
 

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Particle_Man said:
Am I the only one that thinks that these would lead, inevitably, to "party attacks and tries to kill guardsmen or tpks trying" and "party attacks and kills seneshal and his guards or tpks trying"?

Yeah, I'd get a little miffed if it happened. I think we'd change our adventure goals to getting our hard-earned tools back.
 


Particle_Man said:
Am I the only one that thinks that these would lead, inevitably, to "party attacks and tries to kill guardsmen or tpks trying" and "party attacks and kills seneshal and his guards or tpks trying"?
No, you aren't. That's the first thing I thought of. In fact, I've done it. (You'll get my magic items whe you pry them from my cold, dead fingers!)
 

The problem is that 3.5 CR ratings assume a crap load of magic items on the PCs. They really do.

It's not that I necessarily agree with this approach of the inherent design. I don't. I prefer Magic items as chocolate - not as meat & potatoes.

(If you listen to the latest WotC D&D podcast, Mearls and the R&D crew rant a bit about the old guard not accepting the fact that buying and selling magic is common and assumed in the rules).

So we have a system that assumes it; and a definite DM preference among a lot of older players that does not want to give them out as frequently as the designers intend.

Your solution? Add templates, abilities and scrolls and one shot items and make the bad guys use em up before the PCs ever get their hands on em. Add more monsters, give them more hits and make them do more damage and have more arbitrary Su abilities.

Do whatever it is you want to do: just don't give magic items to the bad guys if you don't want the PC good guys to have a good shot at getting them.

That has been the trade-off in adventure design for 30+ years. That part, at least, is nothing new. Make the choice and live with it.
 

Old One said:
1) Squad of heavily-armed guardsman in Imperial Livery show up. "Ahh...thank you for liberating the property of the Grand Duke's son from these evil villains. Turn the blade/wand/stave/ring over and you will see the Duke's sigil. Please take this bag of gold and the Grand Duke's thanks for the return of these items.
Once they hit about 10th level this stops being easily possible. At that point any reasonable party of Imperial Guard under about a company in size are going to be annhiliated. Unless you increase their level and make them the Duke and his personal guard himself, in which case they'll probably still jump straight to the kill them part.

Old One said:
2) Knock on the door. "Good adventurers, it has come to the attention of the Royal Seneschal that you have been most fortunate in recoverying many items of quality from your enemies of late. We are perplexed, however, as to why you haven't paid the requisite surtax on such goods, as clearly stated in his Majesty's Edict LXVIII. Now, please be so good as to present all items for inspection."...some time later..."Yes, well that will be 10,000 gold florins, plus interest and penalties compounded over 3 years for a grand total of 22,000 florins...to be paid immediately. Failure to do so will result in immediate confiscation of such goods as to satisfy the debt to his Majesty's treasury."
This definitely doesn't work. I know because I tried it once, just once. They came back when they were level 25 and razed his capital, it played like a scene from Revelations. I decided not to do that again.

Ultimately the problem is you want to make magic items unique but the assumed power curve of the game regards them as necessary. I can give two recommendations, first check out Final Fantasy Zero and consider just rolling some of the assumed magical benefits into character progression. Second divorce mogical effects from magical items. Apply magical effects as you'd see for items directly to characters. On one end it reduces the level of magic items floating around for the characters to use against you and slows the arms-race effect. On the other end making the magic a direct part of the PC makes them more interesting to play for your players.
 

I suppose one could use Vow of Poverty as a sort of model for this, or maybe Iron Heroes, if you want to have a magic item free world. It would take a lot of tinkering, though.
 

One easy method to deal with this issue is to provide NPCs the benefits of using certain magic items without actually giving them the item. So, for example, all NPCs beyond a certain level could get a +1 resistance bonus to saves, even though they wouldn't actually be possessing a Cloak of Resistance +1. Or some NPC fighter has a Str of +2 higher than you would have given him, which is the equivalent of him possessing Gauntlets of Ogre Strength. In short, use the mechanics of someone possessing magic items without the flavor.
 



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