The problem of keeping magic items scarce...

[AFGNCAAP]

Well, how about this idea:

Why is magic so scarce? Does the presence of lots of magic/magic items become dangerous for those using/carrying it?

Perhaps potent threats (old dragons, outsiders, high-level NPCs, etc.) are more aware of magic as it's accumalated/massed in one place or by a few people. They could either add the items to their stockpile, greedily; or, they could possibly thrive on such magics, draining them dry to boost their own power (the more potent &/or permanent an item, the more "filling" it is for this magical hunger).

And, if the PCs start acting irresponsibly because they feel like they can (like challenging local authories & whatnot), word can (& will) get out of their misdeeds. And possibly get the attention of more powerful, seasoned foes who could deal with the PCs. In essence, the PCs become the big bad evil villains that the heroes need to deal with/slay. I hate to borrow a line from Episode I, but it's true in this regard: "There's always a bigger fish."

Magic items can easily become a liability instead of an asset for the PCs. Perhaps they're constantly besieged by people who want the items for themselves (and they don't have to always resort to direct toe-to-toe fights to get them; there's always theft, blackmail, etc.). Perhaps there's pockets of dead magic (ala the Forgotten Realms for a while) where magic just doesn't work anymore. Maybe magic stored in items becomes harmful for the owner, like radiation. Perhaps magic items bear a curse as well as a boon (sure, that +2 sword makes you better in combat, but to "cosmically balance" the boon you have from that, perhaps your wounds tend to bleed more, or your luck in other areas of life is worse, or you fight yourself fighting more in unopportune moments, etc.).

Then again, if magic is supposed to be so rare, then the PCs really shouldn't face foes with items at all (except on occasion). Monsters with templates, higher-level foes, higher numbers of foes, perhaps good-quality items/masterwork or better items, etc., could be options instead.

 

[S'mon]

1. Let the PCs have their items. It's fun, and keeps the non-spellcasters balanced vs the casters.

2. Lower the XP awards for item-less NPCs; an NPC Fighter-10 without items is really only about CR 6, a moderate challenge for a 6th level party (compare Ettin). An itemless Wiz-10 may be more like CR 8 though.

 

[Black_Swan]

Use legacy items...stop giving out individual items that add up and give out items that the pc's can level using their own xp.

This way your pc's are leveling their items and themselves. This will cause them to level slowly but increase their power either through the item or through their own abilities.

 

[SiderisAnon]

In order to control magic items in my campaign, especially at levels under 10, I work with a model of focusing on disposable magic items. Potions are one of the most common items in the game. They're relatively XP cheap, you don't need to be high level to create them, and they're useful to anyone who can drink one. They give one time bonuses, and they allow players to decide how to dole out the resources of their characters.

Scrolls are important for spellcasters, but only for ones who have enough mooks to keep the PCs away so the bad guy can cast a few spells before the PCs slaughter them. I don't generally give 20 scrolls to an NPC wizard who isn't going to last long enough to cast half his spells anyway.

I also like to use magic items that have interesting but limited uses. In a recent session, I gave the 2nd level party an enchanted +1 pike which can do 1d6 elemental damage three times per day. It's cooler than just a +1 weapon.


I also have to agree with all the posters talking about the attention a party draws when they have more concentrated magic than the rest of the kingdom combined. Leaders will want to tax them. Thieves will want to steal from them. Others may want to study them.

As for telling the local lord that they can't be taxed and delivering the message by slaughtering the guard, well that doesn't work if the party of adventurers want to keep getting paid by people. You do that once and word gets out. Contracts dry up. Nobility in other lands don't want to hire you because you're a danger. Heck, they don't even want you in their country. When that rich old wizard who needs to hire the party at the start of a module goes looking for people, it won't be to the party. No matter their alignments, they quickly go from being the shining heroes to being the bloodthirsty bad guys.

Actually, I recommend letting it happen sometime. It was great fun. The surviving party fled the continent. Two of the players are in my current campaign and they've clearly learned from past mistakes.

 

[Particle_Man]

Even if the party doesn't slaughter the guards/tax man, etc., there are other ways of going about keeping their stuff. Enchantments, Illusions, etc., can all keep the rulers blissfully unaware that their pet adventurers have taxable goodies.

"These are not the magic items you are looking for. Move on."

I mean, if magic items are that rare, then I don't see how the ruler of a kingdom is going to get his hands on them from the adventurers. If he is powerful enough to do that, he must have magic of his own.

[Edit: I just realized - maybe in the game world everyone already does this! Magic Items are not rare at all - just kept secret by those that have them!]

 

[hopeless]

Magical Items are Scarce

Have them make skill checks to create the things, 10 for scrolls or potions of 0th level, 15 for 1st level, 20 for 2nd level, 25 for 3rd level with +5 further with higher levels spells for scrolls.
The skill they use for this being Craft/Alchemy for potions and perhaps Profession/Scribe for scrolls just to show the difference between the two weakest magic item creating feats.
As for magical weapons and armour the base DC to make a masterwork item is 20 so either add +5 or +10 for each +1 involved and for other mgical items treat as a base of 20 with x2 their caster level as the DC so there will be the chance of +1 weapons if they find a suitably skilled weaponsmith of armourer but if they want to make their own there will remain a chance of failure after all what better way to introduce "cursed" items and why magical items ARE scarce after all they're hardly have a good reputation in many cases.

In your current campaign does any of the PCs know the spell "Identify" or do they hire someone to reveal what their gear actually does?
The base cost of such a spell is a 100gp pearl (varies in price if it gets out just how vital that is to these spells) and of course the caster's cost so would they hedge themselves if the person they go to get their items identified says they'll do it in return for the cost of the spell component and one of the items being identified?

In case they think of a Wand of Identify one of the more common mistakes is to forget that each charge in that wand also required the use of a 100gp pearl so the 50 charge wand would cost 5750gp just for a 1st level caster version of a Wand of Identify and if one of the pcs is casting this spell do the rest of the party chip in for their spell components...

Stories are spread about legendary items but tales are fine but that doesn't mean they're enchanted merely the basis of someone much more luckier or more proficient than the PCs are so just imagine they swop a load of enchanted gear for a legendary suit of armour and weapons only to find they aren't enchanted and are only really worth anything to a collector who is more likely to be able to pay for a number of underlings willing to recover "their" property rather than pay the PCs inflated prices...

What gear do they currently have or you have trouble figuring how to remove this problem from the equation?

 

[Old One]

I also have to agree with all the posters talking about the attention a party draws when they have more concentrated magic than the rest of the kingdom combined. Leaders will want to tax them. Thieves will want to steal from them. Others may want to study them.

As for telling the local lord that they can't be taxed and delivering the message by slaughtering the guard, well that doesn't work if the party of adventurers want to keep getting paid by people. You do that once and word gets out. Contracts dry up. Nobility in other lands don't want to hire you because you're a danger. Heck, they don't even want you in their country. When that rich old wizard who needs to hire the party at the start of a module goes looking for people, it won't be to the party. No matter their alignments, they quickly go from being the shining heroes to being the bloodthirsty bad guys.

Actually, I recommend letting it happen sometime. It was great fun. The surviving party fled the continent. Two of the players are in my current campaign and they've clearly learned from past mistakes.

This was essentially my point...although apparently I didn't make it very well...

I don't advocate using such tools with any regularity, but they can be very effective if used properly.

If the campaign is "we kill them, take their stuff, rinse and repeat", then the ideas floated above won't work very well, period.

However, in a dynamic campaign world, offing the Grand Duke's men could very well be political suicide. Imagine, at the next meeting of the King's Council, the Duke complaining to the King about the party refusing to return his rightful property and demanding immediate redress. The PCs could easily be declared outlaw, forfiet all rights, titles and property, etc. History is replete with such actions from the earliest days.

Roman and Byzantine emperors routinely outlawed generals or other political figures that had become too powerful, seized their property and land and otherwise made their lives miserable. Look at what happened to the Knights Templar when their power, wealth and influence became a (percieved) threat to the ruler of France. Those that defied medieval monarchs or religious authorities could easily find themselves on the wrong end of the headsman's block or excommunication.

The one thing I didn't say - and should have - is that such a tool would be used to advance the campaign and introduce new plotlines...not just a random, unrelated event to rip off the PCs - and then disappear back into the woodwork. If they are currently slaughtering everything sent against them...how "hard-earned" are many of the items anyway?

~ OO

 

[Particle_Man]

However, in a dynamic campaign world, offing the Grand Duke's men could very well be political suicide. Imagine, at the next meeting of the King's Council, the Duke complaining to the King about the party refusing to return his rightful property and demanding immediate redress. The PCs could easily be declared outlaw, forfiet all rights, titles and property, etc. History is replete with such actions from the earliest days.

But eventually they will be high enough level to kill the King, everyone on the King's council, everyone who doesn't immediately swear undying loyalty to the party, etc.

 

[MarkB]

What can I do?

Ask yourself that question in-character. You're an opponent of these PCs, you need to be able to challenge and even defeat them, but you simply don't have (m)any magic items available.

The solution? Spells, lots of spells.

Anyone going up against these guys should be backed up by high-level buff-oriented spellcasters, preferably clerics or artificers, who can apply buff spells to them, their armour, their weapons, their clothes, that will give them the bonuses they would gain from having lots of magic items - without actually having any items. That way, they provide a credible threat, but little or no magical loot.

Ideally, you want to create a religious organisation to oppose your PCs, one with enough devotees that they can pack at least two clerics into every group the PCs encounter. Offensive spellcasting can be handled by Sorcerers, Warmages, Warlocks etc. who aren't reliant upon spellbooks or magic items for their powers.

 

[Kraydak]

In a world with plentiful plot hooks (i.e. demand for adventurers), any ruler who angered adventurers overmuch (say, by confiscating their stuff) would rapidly find no adventurers willing to deal with said plot hooks. A party that fought back wouldn't be the only people blacklisted: the Duke would be blacklisted as well (and, if plothook appearence is not a function of PC proximity, the Duke being blacklisted would rapidly become fatal). A DnD ruler cannot afford to anger adventurers (and in truth and power balance favors high level adventurers whose efforts cannot be replicated by masses of low level grunts, say lvl 7+)