The problem of sundering

[James McMurray]

Likewise, for a spellcaster, the rules are specific in that anything but g.p. valued components are to be considered too trivial to track (and likewise trivial enough to replace). So even if you destroyed them in every session, it wouldn't be the same as destroying the fighter's primary weapon.

That's what spell component pouches do. For 5gp they trivialize small spell components without a cost. If you destroy that when they're not near a component salesman then suddenly tracking down bat guano and sulphur for your fireballs becomes a problem.

And while a spellbook may not be an easy target on the battlefield, a wizard's spell pouch is. Hitting him with a sword might stop him from fireballing you. Hitting his bag of tricks will definitely stop him from fireballing you.

Destroying a sword if the fighter has no additional copies reduces him to either creating a new one (which results in downtime for the character), swinging his fists and taking attacks of opportunities or doing nothing with the character for a while.

Fixed it for you.

Replacing a spellbook is ridiculously expensive. Which is why, after a certain point, the wizard usually drops 12,500 on a Blessed Book or takes the feats and crafts his own for significantly less, either as insurance or just as a cost cutter and for it's convenience. Generally, it's in the wizard's best interest to purchase/craft one as soon as he can.

And? You still have to buy all the scrolls to scribe from or rent another person's book, not to mention the time.

I just think it's a sign of a crappy GM to sunder weapons while ignoring all the other class's vulnerabilities. If you're going to be forcing the fighter to rub dirt on it, why does the rest of the party get off scott free?

 

[ruleslawyer]

Probably because of the "DM is out to get you" contrivance involved in attacking spellbooks and such. Sundering an opponent's weapon when he's hammering at you with it is a pretty logical action for an NPC, and unlikely to set off suspension-of-disbelief attacks. Attacking a spellbook (which is probably out of sight in a backpack somewhere, has no particular reason to exist since the guy casting spells could be a sorcerer, and has no effect on the outcome of the immediate combat anyway) seems less likely. There just isn't enough in-game rationale for doing it, unless the DM introduces something like the bookworm from older editions or the like.

 

[James McMurray]

Or the enemy is an intelligent one that does more to interact with the party than stand around in a room waiting to be killed.

 

[el-remmen]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but I handle the sundering of magical weapons with the following house rules:

1) The magical "+" of a weapon is added to its hardness.

2) In order to sunder a magical weapon it must be struck with another magical weapon with a magical "+" at least equal to the target.

3) If a sword has several different pluses use the lowest one.

 

[WizarDru]

That's what spell component pouches do. For 5gp they trivialize small spell components without a cost. If you destroy that when they're not near a component salesman then suddenly tracking down bat guano and sulphur for your fireballs becomes a problem.

There's no such thing as a component salesman...that's the point. In point of fact, we're making a base assumption that the wizard tracks down some alchemist and does the legwork, such as gathering monk's hood in the forest. It's a trivial cost and trivial effort, outside of combat. Even the SRD makes it abundantly clear that it's not worth enumerating. The sleep and deep slumber spells require a pinch of dust, for example....how hard is that to collect? The only reason a cost is associated is that it's no fun to roleplay collecting bat guano and sulfur.

And while a spellbook may not be an easy target on the battlefield, a wizard's spell pouch is. Hitting him with a sword might stop him from fireballing you. Hitting his bag of tricks will definitely stop him from fireballing you.

Yes, but it won't stop him from Scorching Rayying you, Magic Missling you, Shocking Grasping you, Burning Handing you, Blinding/Deafening you, Vampiric Touching you, Enervating you, Shrinking the weapon you're attacking with, Finger of Deathing you, Touch of Idiocying you, hiding in a Fog Cloud and a host of other spells.

Attack his spell component pouch, assuming he's otherwise easy to hit (no blur, no mirror images, no blink, etc.) is a gamble, and likely to be a wasted action by comparison. Beating the snot out of him in combat is just the better choice or grappling him, or whatever you goal happens to be.

Fixed it for you.

Check Wulf's post above, where he quotes my previous statement. There is a BIG difference between taking away a wizard's ability to use his class feature and depriving a fighter of a an additional 2 points in his crit threat or 3 extra points of damage. If we're talking about a +% Holy Avenger, you might have a point...but for a +2 Halberd or a +1 Holy Mace? Not apples and oranges and other than the adamantine and cold steel a spell or alchemical item can temporarily reproduce most of the DR-bypassing effects.

I just think it's a sign of a crappy GM to sunder weapons while ignoring all the other class's vulnerabilities. If you're going to be forcing the fighter to rub dirt on it, why does the rest of the party get off scott free?

The fighter's dependency on weapons is a vulnerability? Probably 50% of the loot a party finds are weapons and armor, captured from the monsters, evil guys or lost tombs. How often does a party capture a spellbook, by comparison?

The sense of scale of loss for the fighter is significantly less than it is for the mage. A fighter can get his weapon repaired and possibly even improved. A mage can't repair his sundered spellbook. That is a critical difference. 6 seconds after having his sword shattered, the fighter can switch weapons, even if it is to a less efficient weapon. In 24 hours, the wizard becomes dead weight unless he has a backup or a large amount of wealth and TIME to make up his loss. Playing that out is NOT FUN, IMHO. Not for the spellcaster, not for the party and likely not for the DM.

 

[FunkBGR]

Fighter's weapon sundered.

Fighter picks up new weapon off cooling corpse.

Fighter good to go.