The problems in Designing a High Magic Campaign.

Originally posted by Piratecat:

Thus, I always thought that local temples - not Lords, or Kings - would hold the most sway in loyalty battles. that makes the church immensely influential!
Of couse that only lasts until the Rogues with the extreme levels of diplomacy knock on their door and convince the church heirarchy that they would make better "administrators" and "policy setters" for the faithful... :D

And that, of course, will only last until the Archmages decide to dominate and magic jar the Rogues... :eek:

In the end the church is a facade controlled by everyone but the clerics... :cool:


Cheers,

A'koss.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Nifft said:
Demographics are VITAL. D&D magic and D&D demographics don't work together at all, and trying to justify both existing together leads to the dreaded techno-magic anachronisms.

IMC, cities are small, rural life is dangerous, and every person counts.

Where is the fun in that? ;)

Make the cities big, I say - nothing says "high magic" like a city with millions of people in them that requires lots of magic to keep running. If magic is supposed to be powerful, show it. Towers reaching in the sky, golem-pulled railways, fields full of giant-sized vegetables...

This is supposed to be fantasy, damnit! Why limit yourself to medieval demographics and societies? The Middle Ages didn't have any powerful spellcasters, as far as we know...
 

I won't elaborate, since I don't want to hijack the thread, but

Well if you want a good example of high magic rules just read the three core rulebooks. By default DnD is high magic.
I disagree. Many may choose to play it as high magic, but you can play medium/low magic and still follow all the rules.




Make items mysterious. Maybe some items have hidden curses, such as a belt of giant strength that makes the user grow and take intelligence damage. Maybe they have hidden benefits, or uses. Either way, adding tiny bits of special power makes the items more memorable.
Some people have a problem with putting small curses on items, because "who would make it that way." But it doesn't have to be on purpose. Magic is tricky, if a small mistake is made, or a misunderstanding of needed ingredients, then unexpected repurcussions may ensue.

.
 

Jürgen Hubert said:
This is supposed to be fantasy, damnit! Why limit yourself to medieval demographics and societies?

I very much agree.

You also followed my path -- looking at the consequences of magic, instead of trying to shoehorn magic AND medieval demographics into one society. You ended up somewhere very different from my world, but that's cool too.

Anyway, on-topic, that's my advice in a nutshell: look at the consequences of whatever kind of high-magic you choose to allow, and ruthlessly apply those conesquences to your society.

-- Nifft
 

Nifft said:


I very much agree.

You also followed my path -- looking at the consequences of magic, instead of trying to shoehorn magic AND medieval demographics into one society. You ended up somewhere very different from my world, but that's cool too.

Well, that was one of the design goals of Urbis - stay as true to the letter of the D&D rules as possible, while twisting the "standard" D&D fantasy world beyond recognition... ;)
 

Piratecat said:
...a magic shop, but it damn well better be a dark and musty room off a side alley, where the PC could swear there wasn't a door yesterday, and where the elderly shop keeper is probably more than he seems to be - and where items are sold in exchange for a riddle, or a memory, or a piece of a soul, or for other items, instead of simply cold cash.
Did you just copy-n-paste that from a Terry Prachett novel? :p
 

I currently play in a "low" magic world.

Here are the changes my group uses:

1. There are few/none HL spellcasters
2. All Item creation feats besides scrolls/potions are banned.

Since there are few/none HL spellcasters & the above banning of item creation then there are few magic items, or the ones that are gained are rare & special.
 

Originally posted by dgrey:

I currently play in a "low" magic world.

Here are the changes my group uses:

1. There are few/none HL spellcasters
2. All Item creation feats besides scrolls/potions are banned.

Since there are few/none HL spellcasters & the above banning of item creation then there are few magic items, or the ones that are gained are rare & special.

The low-magic campaign we're playing right now is very similar.

1. Roughly 5th level spells max. but the wizard classes have more HPs, more choices in class abilities, more spells per day, "multiple attack" spellcasting and casting without preparation to make up for the loss in top-end power. Most HL spells aren't that interesting (or are potentially problematic) anyway... :D

2. Runestones (your potion/scroll) can be enchanted but no permanent magic items (though some very nice leftovers from Ragnarok can be found).

3. No teleportation and no spell-based flight. I'm hoping to promote flying mounts to get around along with a few rare gateways for really long distance travel.


Cheers,

A'koss.
 
Last edited:

I also think it's VITAL to keep in mind the influence of religions. A lot of the conflicts in our history were arguments over 'what god wants'- but those become much more rare when every 9th-level cleric can simply ask their god. Also, there's not much reason to say that one's deity is the only deity if there are clerics of other gods out there- although it's certainly possible to design monotheistic campaigns or campaigns where the dominant religion disavows other religions, those clerics can still demonstrate their power.

High-level characters, both pcs and npcs, are going to become legendary in scope- a party of a few high-level characters can devestate a village or small town with relative ease, and so the cream of society is likely to consist of at least mid-level characters (assuming most of the high-level ones have their own concerns).

Here's another vote for looking at Piratecat's SH for a good example of a high-magic setting.
 

The first thing I do for my home campaigns is strip out the part of the cleric class that says they get their powers from a god. They think they get their powers from a god, and they sure seem to have good proof of it, but most everyone not of that religion would disagree.

In my world, the religions don't mesh, just as they don't mesh in the real world. Sure, there may be some over-God who is perceived in aspects of all the other gods of various pantheons, but most members of any given religion just believe that they're right, and that others are at best wrong, and at worst working for demons and other evil entities. I have monotheistic religions in my world, animist nature-worship religions, Greco-Romanesque polytheistic religions, and a few other weird things (like the dreamborn offspring of a psionic dragon worship themselves and view the dragon as part of the world they have created).

When the existence of gods is not provable to everyone (and when I let anyone learn healing magic, including wizards and sorcerers), religions keep their role as influencing people's daily lives and values, but they don't hold sway over life and death. That midwife in your village might be a skilled expert, or might be a sorceress with a little healing magic and a few good luck charms.



I set up my world so that spellcasters tend to congregate together, ranging from small guilds that might hire out their services to cities and nations, to huge academies that hold great political power, like nations unto themselves. Mages are powerful indeed, but among humans, the ratio of normal person to spellcaster is 187 to 1 (among Elves it's more like 11 to 1), and most of them just dabble and learn a few things to make their life more interesting or comfortable.

The large groups of spellcasters try not to get involved in warfare or other political conflicts, on the whole. They prefer to keep to themselves, and though a lot of mages might volunteer to help out their home nation out of loyalty, the guild/school/organization will keep its hands clean so nobody decides to go attack them.

Most nations, however, do have a few powerful wizards working for them. Kequalak has a tradition of magical inquisitors who root out rebels and insurrectionists, and who are trained in antimagic; Tennas uses mages to perform rituals that clear the harbors of the ice that has been drifting further south these past few decades; and Nozama has a strong treaty with one magical academy that allows it to hire spellcasting mercenaries for its army.

Then you have the nifty magical creations. Sure, a teleportation circle is a great way to let messengers travel quickly from city to city, but most rulers prefer to take the extra day or two, rather than give their enemies the ability to teleport directly into their heartlands by using their own magical devices. A lot of powerful magic like this used to be more common in centuries past, but the havoc that was caused by them has made them taboo today. There used to be a huge army that could teleport wherever it wanted, and it conquered the world. After they were defeated, they magic was sealed away, and most people consider using teleportation to be like summoning demons.

There's also a lot of mistrust because of all the nasty monsters created by ancient wizards to use in their warfare. Sure, the Orb of Many Flaming Eyes sounds like an excellent guardian when you create it and can control it, but a few centuries later it's just a monster, and people curse the names of their creators.

I suppose my world is sort of a post-nuclear war world, which has recovered into a cold war state of affairs. Everyone already used all the big guns, and then they realized that, Hey, these things almost got us all killed. We have to have them, so that our enemies don't try to use theirs on us, but we'd really prefer to never have to use them.



But yes, you do still have adventurers, those people who face such great dangers that, if they survive, they have learned to do things ordinary people would think impossible. They're not controlled by nations, and they've discovered that, when fighting diabolical plans or stopping evil overlords, proper usage of such powerful magic is very effective. Once adventurers start getting powerful enough that their myths begin to spread, nations try to either get rid of them, or garner their alleigance, since it's not smart to let these folks run around with the powers they have.

Rich merchants and minor nobles tend to be the people who make greatest use of powerful magic. Merchants don't have qualms with hiring a mage now and then to get a shipment where it needs to be urgently with a teleport, and it's much easier to fit a few powerful individuals on a boat or in a caravan than it is to hire a small army of mercenaries to defend you from monsters or other dangers of the road.

Nobles, on the other hand, think of adventurers the same way that Renaissance nobility on earth thought of painters and sculptors. They provide patronage to promising heroes, hoping their heroes will become famous and gain them a positive reputation. Since the nobles are loyal to the rulers (at least in a lip-service fashion), and the adventurers are loyal to the nobles, this keeps the adventurers from going out on their own and causing trouble. One great thing about having an ancient past full of powerful magic long forgotten is that there are tons of old ruins to plunder, and sometimes all that power lying forgotten gets twisted to evil intentions. It's a perfect chance for some well-funded heroes to go and kick some ancient evil's butt, then come back and cheer the news.

Hmm, okay, now I have a different analogy. You know how much money gets spent on Hollywood movies? Okay, that money equals magical power. In some worlds, without a 'Hollywood,' that money might not even exist, because successful endeavors earn more money which can be used for greater and greater movies. A studio could easily spend its money to buy tanks and missiles and nuclear weapons, but why would they want to do that?

Similarly, powerful magic is sometimes used for political reasons, but usually it's handled so that adventurers provide entertainment for the masses. I mean, of course there are still real, legitimate bad guys to fight, but as long as magical power is being used to fight other magical power, the common person doesn't have to worry. They can just sit back and enjoy the stories of these great heroes.



Oh, and lest I forget, divination spells do cause a 'problem.' So there's a fine tradition of mages being hired to provide anti-divinatory protection to armies, nobles, and even single stores. Similarly, however, divinations let people figure out answers to simple problems:

"Why is everyone dying of this plague?"

The rats living in the filth in the streets carry the plague.

"Oh, okay. So lets keep the rats out of the town and clear out the filth in the streets."

So most of my major cities have sewers, and magic is used in other similar ways to keep things clean, like purifying water for drinking. I don't have golems performing in construction projects, and I don't have magically-lit streets, but minor magic is common, and that helps make my fantasy setting less gritty, so I don't have to worry about PCs dying of pneumonia.
 

Remove ads

Top