The Quadratic Fighter - rebuilding the class (PEACH)

[Jhaelen]

Though, to be honest, I have never seen much of the fifteen minute adventuring day - and once or twice I have had to tell the party to break and rest, as they are pushing for the fifteen hour adventuring day....

Well, I've not yet seen it, but some players certainly would prefer a 15 minute adventuring day:

The cleric player is always the first to complain about needing a rest (though that's not _that_ surprising since until recently he's been the only cleric in a party of nine)

Next, the psion player will warn the others: 'I'd like to mention I'm (almost) out of power points, so don't count on me if you move on!'.

On the other end of the spectrum, the rogue player will always push for moving on (which is also no wonder since in most fights he doesn't get hit at all (curse that overpowered Hide in Plain Sight ability...)).

Naturally, I'm using random encounters and proactive enemies to discourage camping too often. I've also stressed that the campaign follows a rough timeline, so if they waste too much time, things might get out of hand before they're prepared to deal with them.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

In my experience, Fighter's are not that user friendly, for the simple fact that once they've made their decision, they are stuck with it... even if they find out their decision was a poor one, or that the game changes drastically enough at the higher levels to make what used to be a good choice into a poor one.

Giving the Fighter more options like this would actually make things easier for new players, as they'd have more room for error (instead of picking 10 feats and be stuck with it, they get 40 and can use the ones that are working for the situation).

True, it's a bit more bookkeeping, I can't deny that.

Or you could just be a user-friendly DM and let the player swap out sub-optimal feats.

 

[Mark Chance]

Or you could just be a user-friendly DM and let the player swap out sub-optimal feats.

Hear, hear.

I've thought that it is reasonable that every time a character gains a feat, they have the option of also swapping out an old feat for a new feat. This not only can help keep up with developing character concepts, but also the endless supply of supplements offering the newest feats of the moment.

 

[Kaisoku]

Or you could just be a user-friendly DM and let the player swap out sub-optimal feats.

That's essentially what my suggestion does, except that it builds it into the class and lets it make sense without having to ret-con things. Personally, I'm a very flexible DM, and am willing to work with the players to change a class or class abilities to get the right flavour/mechanics they want.
If I can do this, but put the control of it in my player's hands, I'm a happy DM.

The retraining rule (from PHB2 I think?) is another way to do it as well, however it's a bit slower and finite in it's flexibility. I prefer the idea that the Fighter trains in a lot of combat options, and this ability is just brushing up on specific techniques enough to get the bonus from the selected feats for that day.

It is definitely different from the standard Fighter, I won't deny it. If the DM (and ultimately the player) are happy with the standard Fighter, this suggestion clearly isn't for them.

 

[TanisFrey]

Or you could just be a user-friendly DM and let the player swap out sub-optimal feats.

My DM have all ways allowed a character to swap out 1 feat per level or even a class level. This allows for a player to change a bad choice or a bad mistake. Like an inexperience player playing a paladin, loose that paladin because he made a mistake. (Another player gave him bad advice for the 2 or 3 time despise the rest of us telling him not to do it and the DM also giving a warning not to listen to the player and make up his own mind.) He was allowed to pick up fighter level while questing to regain the character paladinhood. The DM then allow the fighter level to be slowly converted into paladin level.


As far as the no xp game. I have heard of them, but I never played in one nor seen anyone in the greater gaming club use the system.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Book of Nine Swords.

Since it is using encounter powers, it doesn't really achieve the Wizard's "adventuring day" power curve, though. But that's what you and I are aiming at, not necessarily the OP you quoted.

4e.

Certainly gave everyone the same "adventuring day" power curve. (Or did it? The devil is in the detail. Some people seem to consider Wizard daily powers as very powerful - maybe not damage-dealing wise, but certainly battle-field-shaping-wise... A Fighter spending a daily often means not much more than an extra 30 points of damage, a Wizard spending a daily can negate the enemie's artillery or melee complement or at least making its job considerably harder)


To your list I would also add Arcana Evolved Ritual Warriors.


[sblock=YetAnotherTakeOnDailyPowers]
If you want the fighter to be more powerful, grant him an increasing damage bonus. If you want to mimic the way the Wizard or Cleric can decide to really blow through resources and decimate his enemies or he sometimes stands back and doing little more than swinging his quarterstaff or mace, you need some kind of resource beyond hit points that refreshes daily (and the Wizard doesn't get). Action Points, Heroic Surges, Possibilities, whatever...

Let's call them "Warrior Surge" - that explains why spellcasters don't get them.

Warrior Surge Progression:
The progression is basically based on when spellcasters gain a new level. The "most similar" progression (using my 3.x memory. Pathfinder might have changed these values a little) is in paranthesis.

Good: 1/day Starting, +1 at 3rd level and every 2 levels thereafter. (Wizard/Cleric)
Average: 1/day Starting, +1 at 4th level and +1 every 3 levels thereafter (Bard)
Weak: 0/day Starting, +1 at 5th level and +1 every 4 levels therafter (Ranger/Paladin)

Fighter: Good progresion
Rogue: Average Progression
Barbarian, Ranger, Paladin: Weak Progression
Other: Get nothing. You can invent some progression for new classes. Guideline is basically - only fighter get the good one, people without any spells or rage-like abilities get an average progression, and those with very weak spells or rage-like abilities get a low progression. And fully-fledged spellcasters don't get nothing at all.

Warrior Surge Options:
Spring to Action (basic damage booster)
Spend one Warrior Surge to take one extra standard action that must either be some form of weapon attack or combat maneuver (no spellcasting, no drinking potions and stuff like that), or used for a move.

Second Wind (Most useful for in-combat healing due to the large amount of healing compared to most spells):
When using the Full Defense action, you can spend a Warrior Surge to regain 1/4 your regular full hit point total. Can only be used if your concious and below half your normal hit point total.

Escape Death (mostly equivalent to any type of simple defensive spell):
If an attack would kill you, spend Warrior Surge and instead are at -1 hit points and stable.

Fatal Strike (The martial equivalent of a "weakened" save or die effect):
Whenever you score a critical hit, you can spend a warrior surge. The enemy must make a Fort Save DC 10 + 1/2 level + STR/CON/DEX (whichever is higher) or take an additional 5 points of damage per point of your BAB. Regardless of whether the save is succesful or not, the target is also knocked prone.
[/sblock]

 

[TanisFrey]

Fighters have a spell that they use all the time it's called
DRAW BLOOD
Material Focus: sword
Somatic Component: sword arm in motion
Verbal Component: a grunt

does 1d8 + str adj on a hit

 

[Scott DeWar]

Fighters have a spell that they use all the time it's called
DRAW BLOOD
Material Focus: sword
Somatic Component: sword arm in motion
Verbal Component: a grunt

does 1d8 + str adj on a hit

I have seen a higher level of the spell: draw blood, greater, where it requires a material focus of a two handed sword and both hands/arms to be in motion. then there is the lesser spell where the material focus is a dagger.

 

[TanisFrey]

I have seen a higher level of the spell: draw blood, greater, where it requires a material focus of a two handed sword and both hands/arms to be in motion. then there is the lesser spell where the material focus is a dagger.

There is another that requires a Hammer and is called Break Bone