D&D General The Rakshasa and Genie Problem

[MonsterEnvy]

Okay, and there are a lot of racist tropes wrapped up in the same sort of image. I'm not sure how I can explain this further.

Well you should, that's part of the point of the thread. Cause it just seems you are against an Arabian Demon being presented as evil. Despite there being other Arabian creatures that are not.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Well you should, that's part of the point of the thread. Cause it just seems you are against an Arabian Demon being presented as evil. Despite there being other Arabian creatures that are not.

Because the imagery of a stereotypical Arab stealing (as portrayed) pseudo-Europeans and selling them into slavery is a racist trope that has largely been used to otherize Arabs in modern times as well as a way of excusing and lessening the terribleness of America and Europe's slave history.

I'm not against an Arab demons being evil. I'm against using the same sort of coding that I've seen racists use to tell me why we should bomb the Middle East "back into the stone age" as well as "why plantations weren't as bad as you think".

 

[Micah Sweet]

I mean, it hasn't been for everyone. The reason it is for Wizards is that they have a very conservative fanbase when it comes to the product and thus they try to split the difference by making quiet half-changes that end up pissing everyone off in the end. I mean, I remember reading the critiques of ToA and they are generally speaking pretty simple ones. I could link to a few, but generally speaking they're just asking for depictions of minority cultures not to be an afterthought.



This is a conversation I'm not in the mood for, so I will agree that slavery should be depicted as bad, but ultimately you shouldn't depict it unless you are really ready to deal with it and not just use it as an adventure hook.



Okay, and there are a lot of racist tropes wrapped up in the same sort of image. I'm not sure how I can explain this further.

Okay, tell us what you want then? What's an acceptable depiction of efreet for you? Again, I see a lot of no and hardly any yes.

 

[Remathilis]

You know, we can get rid of this problem by getting rid of Always-Evil Fiends. I mean, we've already discussed elsewhere how being an aberration from beyond the stars doesn't necessarily make you evil; why not go the last step and make efreeti, rakashas, baatezu and tanar'ri capable of any alignment and living in non-evil communities?

 

[Justice and Rule]

Okay, tell us what you want then? What's an acceptable depiction of efreet for you? Again, I see a lot of no and hardly any yes.

Less focus on slavery, more on aggressive, militant traders? I mean, at a certain level I kind of want to move some of the elemental genies away from just being Arab pastiches and try to do something different. More recently I thought that it'd be cool to have the elemental traders from the Plane of Fire to be closer to the Hansa in style, with a set of city-states instead a single city. I also thought it would be cute to have the denizens from the Elemental Plane of Fire wear layers rather than less because, well, they aren't going to get hot anyways. Why not have them look like Renaissance Germans?

 

[Justice and Rule]

You know, we can get rid of this problem by getting rid of Always-Evil Fiends. I mean, we've already discussed elsewhere how being an aberration from beyond the stars doesn't necessarily make you evil; why not go the last step and make efreeti, rakashas, baatezu and tanar'ri capable of any alignment and living in non-evil communities?

I mean, that's always a good idea to apply to any race. Though again, with efreets I think it would be smart to at least reconsider some of how they look. Just a suggestion.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

You know, we can get rid of this problem by getting rid of Always-Evil Fiends. I mean, we've already discussed elsewhere how being an aberration from beyond the stars doesn't necessarily make you evil; why not go the last step and make efreeti, rakashas, baatezu and tanar'ri capable of any alignment and living in non-evil communities?

Well this is already being done. Fiends are going to be Typically Evil from now on. In the same way an Angel can fall, a Fiend can rise.

 

[Remathilis]

I mean, that's always a good idea to apply to any race. Though again, with efreets I think it would be smart to at least reconsider some of how they look. Just a suggestion.

Yes, demons aren't actually evil, just misunderstood, and vilified.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Yes, demons aren't actually evil, just misunderstood, and vilified.

And the Devil doesn't have to lie, and he really doesn't buy the souls of others. He doesn't need any souls. And how can anyone own a soul?

 

[Remathilis]

Well this is already being done. Fiends are going to be Typically Evil from now on. In the same way an Angel can fall, a Fiend can rise.

I'll hold out for D&D 6.5 edition, where evil will be removed from the game entirely.

"He's not Evil, he's just a very naughty boy." - Pelor, speaking on Asmodeus.