The reasons why "novel-talk" is taboo on WotC Boards?

sanishiver said:
Since the boards exist solely to promote WotC’s products (being a community is its secondary purpose), there was little point to continue the novel forums.

Sorry, for some reason I figured this merited repeating.

I visit the WotC boards for basically one reason, the Character Optimization board. The rest of it doesn't exist. Pity it comes down to that, but it's basically not worth it.

Yay for the ENWorld community!
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Razz said:
I never meant they should pack up and leave. I meant why not put such people on their ignore list? Doesn't the boards have that?
No, the ignore feature is something relatively new to the WotC forums.

And even if an ignore feature existed since the forums were made available to the public, that still wouldn’t change the fact that it wasn’t the novel authors responsibility to “shrug off” the BS that was thrown at them and the products they helped to create.

Razz said:
But for the authors to band together and completely sever the Novels Forum was just them running away from the problem they had instead of fighting against it. One group discussion with the WizOs and out goes many of the instigators from ever appearing on the Novels board.
This assumes the authors did band together. We still don’t know the truth of that.

Could you explain why you think it was the author’s problem to deal with and not Wizards of the Coast’ problem?

As for simply banning people outright: Keep in mind WotCs ostensible responsibility to be fair and even handed with official warnings and banning people. Sure you’ll get lots of people saying, “It’s their website, they can do with it what they want.” And this is true.

But on the other hand WotC is hosting a website for teens and almost teens to interact. All it takes is one disgruntled kid telling his parents he was ‘abused’ by some employee on some corporation’s (read: Hasbro’s) website for things to go south real fast. Plus, WotC is a corporation. You don’t just go changing your procedures willy nilly, especially for those elements of your business that deal directly with the public (and that public’s children).

Again, Razz, please realize that the problems on the novel forums didn’t suddenly become an issue just because some novel authors (allegedly) decided they were an issue. The basic problems on the novel forums were know by the WizOs after awhile (even if they didn’t seem to grasp them fully), and ere known by the fans on the forums almost from the beginning.

I don’t doubt that the higher ups (beyond boss WizO Melanie) knew on some level what was going on too.

Razz said:
They should've strictly enforced the Novels board, not shatter it. I don't know if it is entirely true, but if the authors did combine their strength and forced WotC to shut down the boards that's just as childish as the people who were trolling and flaming about.
We’ll have to agree to disagree.

If the speculation that the authors did take matters into their own hands is true, then that’s not childish at all. At least someone with some real influence finally said, “This is wrong, and it needs to stop.” Besides, they had a right to expect that they (and their work) be treated just as civilly as anyone else.

It’s this “shut up and take it” approach that’s the problem. Always has been.
 
Last edited:

Since we’re (s)trolling down memory lane, I thought I’d address this (because it reminds me of many of the posts I used to see on ---you guessed it--- the old novel forums) in the manner I did back in the day….

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
The people writing game novels for all game companies are almost universally amateurs and, mysteriously, most of them have personal ties to developers (or are developers themselves) or the publishing company.
You’d have to have a pretty broad definition of amateur, as well as a pretty paranoid notion of what ‘personal ties’ means (which, in the real world, often refers to friends, work acquaintances, contacts, getting to know people through basic networking, etc…with no conspiracies implied or assumed).

I’d also peg the first claim in the first sentence quoted above as simply wrong.

Go to your local bookstore and count the number of different titles for a line like the Forgotten Realms. Then count the number of times the same author name appears for each different book.

You’ll find a majority of titles are by the same set of authors. If you expand your search beyond the Realms (by looking at Dragonlance novels or jumping over to Star Wars novels) you’ll not only find more authors with multiple books under their belt, but also that some authors do in fact cross over from one genre to the next.

So the question becomes one of figuring out exactly what you mean by ‘amateur’. It certainly can’t mean ‘newbie’, because there aren’t all that many newbie authors compared to established authors.

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
If you hire people who could not sell a novel in the real world, you're going to end up with products of a lower quality.
But strangely enough, the people so hired typically have writing (or other, professional) degrees, at least some years of experience in the gaming industry (if they have ‘personal ties’ as you put it) and are actively involved in the hobby they’d be writing for, probably know most of the people that will be editing and publishing their eventual work and (based on the points made in my first response above) already have more than one book under their belt.

But I guess it’s too much of a stretch to believe a company might actually train, elevate and evaluate from within, huh?

The whole concept of the ‘real world’ is a false one, by the way. Splitting hairs leads to an empty argument.

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
There's nothing personal about that -- some of these folks have grown and become quite successful novelists in their own right. But most have not.
How does not becoming a successful (again, vague) novelist validate your claims?

Does this really prove that all authors who don’t write more than one novel are corporate-inbread, amateur hacks?

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
I have no idea what sort of people the writers are (other than not having been published elsewhere), and would not for a moment assume that they are not all fine upstanding people, wonderful friends and kind to puppies.
But you’d assume a whole lot about their skill sets and experience.

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
Making an objective statement about them (they did not sell fiction to any non-gaming outlet) is not a personal comment, nor is the observation that many people find the overall quality of game fiction to be substantially lacking.
It’s objective if it’s true regardless of who says it. ‘Many people’ is too vague and too unlikely to be true without real sampling to rely upon as fact.

Better to call it what it is, an assumption.

J. Grenemyer
 
Last edited:

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
No, it's not a cheap insult and no, it's not largely inaccurate.

The people writing game novels for all game companies are almost universally amateurs and, mysteriously, most of them have personal ties to developers (or are developers themselves) or the publishing company.

If you hire people who could not sell a novel in the real world, you're going to end up with products of a lower quality.

There's nothing personal about that -- some of these folks have grown and become quite successful novelists in their own right. But most have not.

I have no idea what sort of people the writers are (other than not having been published elsewhere), and would not for a moment assume that they are not all fine upstanding people, wonderful friends and kind to puppies.

Making an objective statement about them (they did not sell fiction to any non-gaming outlet) is not a personal comment, nor is the observation that many people find the overall quality of game fiction to be substantially lacking.

Actually, it is cheap AND inaccurate. More than a few WotC authors have been published BEFORE they ever wrote a book for WotC (and outside of the "gaming" market). Several WotC authors have NEVER published before WotC, and had NO ties to WotC before they wrote their first novel. WotC's choices of authors don't seem to follow much of a pattern except for one . . . they keep the good authors around to write more. Most of the crappy WotC authors have not had more than 1 or 2 novels published by WotC and the current line up of authors is pretty darn good (IMHO).

Have you read any of the various D&D novels? Like any shared world(s), there are some weak books in the bunch. In the early days just after the original Dragonlance saga was published, TSR did rush out some craptacular books in the Dragonlance line. Since then, a lousy book makes its way onto the bookshelves from time to time. But for the most part, good stuff. For some reason I've been collecting the D&D novels since day one, and I'm pretty sure I've read them all. Course, its all my opinion that WotC pushes out some great novels, but at least I've read them and have some background for my opinions.
 

KenM said:
Ban the IP.
IP banning doesn't work too often (Speaking as a former Admin). Most ISPs shift your IP regularly unless you pay for it, and if you access the site from several other locations, the IP doesn't help either.
 

Ferrix said:
Sorry, for some reason I figured this merited repeating.

I visit the WotC boards for basically one reason, the Character Optimization board. The rest of it doesn't exist. Pity it comes down to that, but it's basically not worth it.

Yay for the ENWorld community!

Sometimes I find it useful, when I have a question about Eberron, to ask Keith Baker himself. (Yes, he does post on these boards, but not as consistantly as he does on the WotC boards.)
 

Wizards provided the Novel Forums free of charge as a service to their customers. Certain customers abused the service to such a degree that continuing it would have been more trouble than it was worth. So they simply stopped providing the service.

I'm honestly surprised the forum lasted as long as it did, given the level of geek creepiness on display.

Fans ruin everything.
 

Haven't read the whole thread, but I do have a quick question.

What was the ratio of insults/slander to constructive criticism? Did it seem to WOtC that there weren't enough thoughtful critics to maintain the forum?
 

i was there. before, during, and after...

they had every right in my opinion to drop the novel discussion.

talk about raping or killing some of the authors is not appropriate for a forum frequented by 10 and 11 year olds.

yes it was that bad.
 


Pets & Sidekicks

Remove ads

Top