The Return of House Rules: A Fractured Community

Having a quick read through (really a skim) of the books last night, I don't think that the sky will fall. I do think that the core-rules will feel less *core* than they have since 3e was released.

Where 3.0 felt self-contained and complete (must as 1e did and 2e didn't), 3.5 feels like a different but equal Core Rules. I mean, it is self-contained and it is complete. But just as a DM (or player) could argue that a 1e rule should trump a 2e rule and the premise of the argument seemed sound, a DM (or player) could argue that a 3.0 rule should trump a 3.5 rule and the premise is sound.

Of course, the DM makes the final decision. But every dispute of this nature has to be wieghed on its specific and individual merits, because 3.5 doesn't carry the absolute weight of being the precedent, the authority. 2e was a (major) revision of 1e, it was always the child. Even if the parent was very permissive and allowed the child to grow and establish its own identity it was still the pretender to the throne.

3e was a cousin that really just took the throne -- not by force, and not without pedigree or justification, but it just walked up and sat down and started to rule. Sure some people worked in facing and weapon speed but it was always clear that they were departing from a 3e baseline and there was little question about altering 2e to include 3e rules (although there was some, most notably the skill system).

3.5 is very much the progeny of 3e, and it will take a long time for it to establish its own identity -- if it ever can. Until it does, it will not really carry the weight of authority and there will feel like there are two systems of core rules in circulation.

It will happen, of course. By the mid 90s 1e had been out of print long enough for new players and many older players to forget that it ever existed. Years of playing, and it being the first set of rules for a *complete* generation made it its own game. But that took quite a bit of time. 3.0 will eventually fade far enough into the background for it to lose its status as the authoritative precedent and 3.5 will be the undisputed baseline, core rules.

Big Hairy Audacious Prediction ahead:

At almost the precise moment that 3.5 becomes the baseline, core rules, 4e will be released to wipe the slate clean again and 3.5e will be remembered with the bemused disappointment that the most forgiving people feel for 2e. Not a bad system but not the best, and not the first so you can't really pine for it. When 4e arrives, people will pine for 3e not 3.5, just as when 3e arrived people waxed nostalgic for 1e* not 2e.

All in my humble opinion, of course. Who really knows how all this will play out (which I suppose is a mild condemnation of the fundamental business decision, but that's a different issue.) It looks like my personal campaign will use modified 3e rules, though, not modified 3.5 rules.

Cheers

* Or OD&D in Diaglo's case.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Original post sounds highly contrived to me. And of course, I had like 50 house rules for 3E, so 3.5 won't cause my head to explode or anything. Maybe some of us just don't see this as an end of the world crisis LOL :p
 

Sigil nailed it on the head -- since the release of the d20 license, the community has been more fractured than ever before. 3.5 is not going to improve nor degrade that position in the least. The debates we've seen for the last three years on these message boards show how fractured we are in terms of alt.rules that are used all over the place.

And, at the end of the day, who cares! I don't game with you, so why do I care which subtle iteration of the rules you use? The only meaningful discussions on the message boards about gaming, as near as I can tell, are 1) high level concepts about gaming (which won't change one bit from 3e to 3.5), 2) rules questions and discussions (which you can still have just as easily whether your talking about 3e or 3.5) and 3) different ways of doing things, like alt.magic-systems for example, which will still happen at exactly the same pace as before. I don't see how the community changes substantially at all with 3.5. If this were a full-blown overhaul of the rules, ala 2e to 3e, then there'd be an impact to the community, but even diehard 1e players are active posters here, and have plenty to talk about.
 

BelenUmeria said:
Sigil,

The difference is that now we have two underlying sets of the system. 3rd party is different. They have stuff designed more for flavor. Yet they used the core rules to build that flavor.

Now we have two sets of rules. That means that 3rd party publishers also have two sets of core materials etc.

You're really comparing apples and oranges with the 3rd party stuff.

Dave
Uh, we've had two sets of "core rules" since d20 Modern came out. Just because most fantasy publishers have stuck with "3.0" instead of using "Modern" doesn't mean we haven't had them.

IMO, we're going to see even more sets of "core rules" in the very near future... by the end of next month we should have:

1 - 3.0 SRD
2 - d20 Modern SRD
3 - 3.5 SRD
4 - Arcana Unearthed (not in SRD form, but it is getting a lot of support from third-party publishers and from what I have seen, contains as many deviations from 3.0 as 3.5 does)
5 - Mutants & Masterminds (a modernish-type thing and not in SRD form, but you get the point)

And I fail to see what the big deal is... the underlying system is not the "3.0 system," the underlying system is the "d20 system."

I happen to believe that because the underlying system is the same, it will be a LOT easier to port 3.0 to 3.5 and vice versa than a lot of people think.

I think a lot of people are getting upset because "WotC is 'making' me upgrade and spend another $90." How are they going to 'make' me upgrade? By discontinuing support for 3.0!

Maybe I'm a bit daft, but I just don't see the problem. 3.5 material is quite easily used with 3.0 and vice versa. You still have Attack bonuses and damage. You still have AC that goes up, not down. You still have hit points. I will be willing to venture that unless you are the type that calculates out how many skill points a monster, NPC, et al is supposed to have, then compares it to what they do have to see if you can catch a mistake, you won't be able to notice the difference in support products.

Yes, there are some minor tweaks to some of the spells and abilities that various classes get, but they are minor in the overall scheme of things. And if you're still using 3.0 "buff" spells with longer durations, who cares? There are a few new Feats, spells, etc. that will be added - and which will be available for free in the revised SRD.

I could go pick up City of the Spider Queen right now and run it quite comfortably with my PHB, DMG, and MM - and NOT the FRCS, assuming I could get a "free" copy of the feats and spells from the FRCS and/or Magic of Faerun referenced therein (I don't know exactly what it references, but I'm sure it assumes you have the FRCS). Try picking it up for yourself and flipping through it next time you're at your FLGS... it probably relies on more stuff that is in the Core Rules, but you can still run it with next to no difficulty.

Similarly, I think you'll be able to use 3.0 stuff with 3.5 - it'll be like running a character made solely from PHB stuff in an FR campaign - yes, you miss out on some of the "cool Feats and spells" in the FRCS, but even if you're a little more "vanilla" it still works.

Hopefully my point is clear... while the total skill points of a monster may be different, or it may have a Feat you're not familiar with, my guess is that the changes in 3.5 will not be much different in scope than the changes in the FRCS when compared with 3.0. And since you can download the spells, Feats, etc. from 3.5 for free from the web, they're even easier to integrate.

Heck, I think it will be easy to "run 3.5 stuff on 3.0" - you'll just have to add a few spells and Feats to your list - no worse than the errata now - and you won't be able to tell the difference.

--The Sigil
 

For me, the problem is going to come when I go to cons.

For the last 3 years, when I have run a game I just say "I'm running a 3e game using the rules as written in the books, and will use any published errata." bang rules speech over lets game.

Now we will be back to having to spend the first 15-30 min of every game going over house rules and in extreme cases making changes to characters to make them fit a persons game.

So I have to agree this will fracture the community some, but not in a earth shattering way, just more of an uneeded anoyance. :(

JDragon
 

Also, FWIW, I will not be buying the revised Core Rulebooks right away.

Not because I hate 3.5 or love 3.0 or anything... my reasoning is simple... my brother is getting married next month and I need as much cash as I can hang on to in order to make the roadie (we've had to get major service done on the car, I've gotten new glasses for the first time in about a decade - and I really needed them, and with two kids in tow, we're going to have to spend the night at hotels on the way up, too). ;)

I WILL be downloading the 3.5e SRD as soon as it becomes available and poring over it (as a publisher). Heck, to be honest, since I know I can get all the rules changes in the new SRD, I'm personally MUCH more excited to get my mitts on Arcana Unearthed and the Blackmoor Release that's supposed to come out in August. :)

--The Sigil
 

And I fail to see what the big deal is... the underlying system is not the "3.0 system," the underlying system is the "d20 system."

Amen, Sigil, Amen.

As for the fractured community of house rules:bring them on!!! Let Darwin's Theory of Survival of the Fittest rule here and smite the weakest ideas.
 

The Sigil said:
Not because I hate 3.5 or love 3.0 or anything... my reasoning is simple... my brother is getting married next month and I need as much cash as I can hang on to in order to make the roadie...

Tell your brother congratulations, from someone who has no clue who the heck he is. :D
 

The Sigil said:

Uh, we've had two sets of "core rules" since d20 Modern came out. Just because most fantasy publishers have stuck with "3.0" instead of using "Modern" doesn't mean we haven't had them.

IMO, we're going to see even more sets of "core rules" in the very near future... by the end of next month we should have:

1 - 3.0 SRD
2 - d20 Modern SRD
3 - 3.5 SRD
4 - Arcana Unearthed (not in SRD form, but it is getting a lot of support from third-party publishers and from what I have seen, contains as many deviations from 3.0 as 3.5 does)
5 - Mutants & Masterminds (a modernish-type thing and not in SRD form, but you get the point)

I will reiterate that I don't think that the sky is falling. But I do think that you are overstating this point.

D&D is the 500 pound gorrilla. As cool as M&M or Arcana Unearthed are or will be, they will be as second-tier in the RPG world as Gamma World or Top Secret were in the early 80s. I don't think that Mr. Cook or Pramas would seriously argue this point.

They, nor d20 modern (nor d20 CoC or d20 Star Wars, for that matter) represent the gold-standard of the RPG genre of games.

For a few years (at least?) when you sit down at a new table it will really be necessary to ask, Is this a 3.0 or 3.5 game? It will not be necessary to ask, Is this an Arcana Unearthed game? That's something the DM will point out when listing the books that are "legal" at his table for his home-brew.

[edit: Just to be clear, I think that the default, and fundamental choice, will always be between 3.0SRD and 3.5SRD.]

Cheers
 
Last edited:

MThibault said:
For a few years (at least?) when you sit down at a new table it will really be necessary to ask, Is this a 3.0 or 3.5 game? It will not be necessary to ask, Is this an Arcana Unearthed game? That's something the DM will point out when listing the books that are "legal" at his table for his home-brew.
Gah! The massive, horribly crippling inconvencience of it all!!!!111!! How can I be expected to game properly if I have to ask this simple question every time I sit down for a new campaign? My hatered of d02 knoe no limit!!!!!!!11111!!!!
furious.gif
 

Remove ads

Top