Charles Dunwoody
Man on the Silver Mountain
And the best part is a great story will be remembered by all!
The Return of the Player and the Man Beneath the Mask?
- Thread starter Jack7
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And the best part is a great story will be remembered by all!
No, it was the most popular RPG because it was pretty much the only RPG - the only effective competition it had for years was from other forms of D&D!
AD&D didn't do the training well. The players with time on their hands and few competing distractions did it well. I'd say that the training happened not because of how the game was designed and presented, but more in spite of it. As I said before, the actual organization of the 1e books leaves a lot to be desired. They are, in my own opinion, pretty poor learning resources.
And these are different times. Gone is the age where the lonely nerd-child had few outlets for his imaginative genre desires. The game, it's design and presentation, must change to meet the new challenges and competition.
Going to have to agree with this. The rules set helps determine how these interactions take place--if the rules say "the players can detect this trap by probing ahead with a ten-foot pole," that's going to create the incentive for both players and DMs to use ten-foot poles in their game. Likewise, if traps are particularly perilous, the players are going to proceed with more caution.
I think option paralysis rarely happened in 1E and 2E. A given player might be new at the game and have an issue, but humans are humans. The other 4 or 5 players / DM there would chime in with a bunch of options until that player got comfortable enough to do it on his or her own.
The real issue between 1E style and 4E style is that in 1E, it was open-ended because there were fewer rules and no concept of powers. In 4E, the game system does allow for open-ended attacks somewhat, but that's not what happens in practice a lot. Instead, players spam powers.
I never see anyone in 4E that doesn't have a knock prone power try to trip anyone anymore. Or, grab their weapon (this is even discouraged in the rules). There is a little bit in the movement actions (I swing from the chandelier), but very little open-ended truly imaginative unique attacks done often in the actual attack standard actions.
Granted, there are probably some groups out there that play 4E like 1E, but I have been in a lot of different campaigns with a lot of different people, and have read quite a few story hours and I just don't often see it. I see power spamming.
Charles Dunwoody
Man on the Silver Mountain
Again, I have to disagree. Fact is, the 1970s saw not just D&D but also Tunnels & Trolls, Chivalry & Sorcery, Traveller, and RuneQuest all of which also had mutliple editions and all but one are still in print. The 1970s had plenty of great rpgs.
I agree that the organization of AD&D is wonky by today's standards. I don't have any problem using them though. And they had indexes, which even some modern rpgs don't have!
Don't really get your last point. I've gamed with dozens of people and none of them were lonely nerd-children. Sounds like you have some negative views of early gamers (I started in the 80s) that I don't share. I agree there is more competiton today however. D&D will still attract a large crowd if it sticks to its roots but updates minor wonky bits and continues to embrace hopefully optional tech.
DMKastmaria
First Post
I don't get it either. I grew up playing AD&D with friends. We had a lot of fun and had no problems grokking how to play the game.
Let me tell you about a PC call Eddie the Exotic.
Eddie rarely did a normal attack.
So the DM of the game that Eddie was in constantly had to make up new rules.
And the DM made the checks hard to make, very restrictive, or both.
And Eddie died after he missed a flying double kick off the top of a bookcase.
Because for some reason if you roll low the huge orc assassin catches your PC and chokeslams him through the bedroom floor.
Three editions later, Eddie was reincarnated. And he found himself in a room with bookshelves and no floor to fall through. Eddie had don't nothing Exotic as of yet. So he tried his Flying Double Kick, the DM spent some time searching through books, arguing, grumbling, and creating the power satisfactory to both player and DM. Just for him to roll a 3.
I have no problem with a little freedom. I have no problem with rules. I have a problem when the rules or lack thereof keep me from roleplaying my character correctly or with ease.
Eddie rarely did a normal attack.
So the DM of the game that Eddie was in constantly had to make up new rules.
And the DM made the checks hard to make, very restrictive, or both.
And Eddie died after he missed a flying double kick off the top of a bookcase.
Because for some reason if you roll low the huge orc assassin catches your PC and chokeslams him through the bedroom floor.
Three editions later, Eddie was reincarnated. And he found himself in a room with bookshelves and no floor to fall through. Eddie had don't nothing Exotic as of yet. So he tried his Flying Double Kick, the DM spent some time searching through books, arguing, grumbling, and creating the power satisfactory to both player and DM. Just for him to roll a 3.
I have no problem with a little freedom. I have no problem with rules. I have a problem when the rules or lack thereof keep me from roleplaying my character correctly or with ease.
Yep. All nice games. But there's more to effective business competition than game quality. D&D was first in the marketplace, beating most of the others by years. D&D had better distribution and marketing, as well, thereby keeping the lead until 1977 came along with the AD&D hardcovers.
I think most folk underestimate the effect of the trio of hardcover books, honestly. They're so much more... solid. Official. Important. They had a draw no softcover or boxed set could match.
So, yeah, I still maintain that AD&D didn't have effective competition.
What, don't recognize self-deprecating humor when it gnaws on your kneecap?
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