D&D General The Roll Report interviews Steampunkette

Steampunkette

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Couple notes about the interview:

1) Ancestry and Culture was produced by Arcanist Press. (Forgot the name during the interview)

2) WotC messed up with the Warlock (in my opinion) by deferring the Patron to 3rd level. (Got asked without much chance to really follow up on it)

3) The DHSM and NuTSR are gone at this point, thanks to WotC. Though you can take a look at the Saga on this forum!

4) Darrington Press is the Critical Role publishing company behind Daggerheart!

Warning: Colin's language gets kinda spicy when the topic goes toward bigotry. Mine gets -briefly- spicy about the 2024 Warlock.

Hope y'all enjoy!
 
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I finally got around to listening to this interview. Towards the end, you mention your love for the Gunslinger class from Pathfinder. Have you ever seen Matthew Mercer's adaptation as a Gunslinger Fighter subclass that Taliesin Jaffe (Percy) played in Season 1 of Critical Role? If so, what are your thoughts on it?
 

I finally got around to listening to this interview. Towards the end, you mention your love for the Gunslinger class from Pathfinder. Have you ever seen Matthew Mercer's adaptation as a Gunslinger Fighter subclass that Taliesin Jaffe (Percy) played in Season 1 of Critical Role? If so, what are your thoughts on it?
I have! I'm not actually much of a fan of it, myself. At least not in the most recent iteration it's had.

(Mercer has repeatedly updated it, even after the campaign's end)

It's kind of a weaker Battle Master with a focus on ranged/firearms, with the damage bonuses of Superiority dice frontloaded into the weapon overall (because Exandria, like many TTRPGs, makes Guns do way more damage than other weapons and then makes other mistakes to compensate).

Beyond that they get initiative bonuses, rapid reloading, and the ability to quickly "Fix" their weapons which rely on a misfire mechanic to make using guns as annoying as possible (Because the archetype exists only in relation to the weapons that define it, of course).

Misfire, in particular, is so incredibly bad as a design for a character that's supposed to make 4 attacks per round. Why? You critfail 5% of the time. So your chances of rolling at least one natural 1 in a round are about 18%. Increasing the misfire rate to 1s and 2s makes it about a 34% chance.

By Misfire 3 you've got a 47.8% chance of misfiring if you make 4 attacks.

Like... you have about a 37% chance with most firearms of jamming EVERY ROUND that you make 4 attacks. God forbid you should Action Surge!

There's not a lot of "Gunslinger" to it. You have a fighter with a gun and some maneuvers and... that's it. You could make a more mechanically effective Gunslinger in Exandria by just -using- a Battle Master Fighter and carrying several guns so you can swap firearms when they inevitably jam. (Grappling Attack, Lunging Attack, Riposte, and Sweeping Attack require melee, none of the rest do)

Though in large part that has to do with 5e's granting of archetype features spread out thin over the fighter class. You don't have a lot of room to actually -explore- something as previously expanded on as a full character class. You can -touch- on ideas, and create some general themes...

But then the need to negate the major penalties Mercer created for firearms in exchange for big damage just really ate up a bunch of slots, y'know?

It's why I've got my own Gunslinger -class- for Martial Artistry.

1730405966595.png

There's a lot more room in a full class for the tropes and identity of a gunslinging character. Not just Quickdraw, but things like hitting the deck when someone's firing at you. Making better use of cover than most characters 'cause gunfighters diving behind tables or hiding behind pillars in firefights is an important visual concept.

There's even Hognose Flop in there for feigning death after taking a hit, then they roll you over and you shoot them point blank.

And because the class has that much flavor of it's own, it can support subclasses of different kinds of gunslingers (Bushwhacker, Desperado, Maverick, Pistolero) so you get more character variety.

Anyway... yeah. It's a whooole thing.

But before anyone thinks I wanna yuck their yum: It's a different style and a different goal in the end.

The Gunslinger Archetype was made for Percival de Rolo. It was meant to facilitate that campaign's specific storytelling methods and concepts and there's nothing wrong with people liking or using it.

I just feel there's more that can be done in that design space. And find WotC's devotion to trying to just have the 13 base classes with an ever-expanding list of subclasses is not the right direction to go for getting deeper into character design. Shallow and wide isn't the worst thing... but it's not the best, either.
 

I have! I'm not actually much of a fan of it, myself. At least not in the most recent iteration it's had.

(Mercer has repeatedly updated it, even after the campaign's end)

It's kind of a weaker Battle Master with a focus on ranged/firearms, with the damage bonuses of Superiority dice frontloaded into the weapon overall (because Exandria, like many TTRPGs, makes Guns do way more damage than other weapons and then makes other mistakes to compensate).

Beyond that they get initiative bonuses, rapid reloading, and the ability to quickly "Fix" their weapons which rely on a misfire mechanic to make using guns as annoying as possible (Because the archetype exists only in relation to the weapons that define it, of course).

Misfire, in particular, is so incredibly bad as a design for a character that's supposed to make 4 attacks per round. Why? You critfail 5% of the time. So your chances of rolling at least one natural 1 in a round are about 18%. Increasing the misfire rate to 1s and 2s makes it about a 34% chance.

By Misfire 3 you've got a 47.8% chance of misfiring if you make 4 attacks.

Like... you have about a 37% chance with most firearms of jamming EVERY ROUND that you make 4 attacks. God forbid you should Action Surge!

There's not a lot of "Gunslinger" to it. You have a fighter with a gun and some maneuvers and... that's it. You could make a more mechanically effective Gunslinger in Exandria by just -using- a Battle Master Fighter and carrying several guns so you can swap firearms when they inevitably jam. (Grappling Attack, Lunging Attack, Riposte, and Sweeping Attack require melee, none of the rest do)

Though in large part that has to do with 5e's granting of archetype features spread out thin over the fighter class. You don't have a lot of room to actually -explore- something as previously expanded on as a full character class. You can -touch- on ideas, and create some general themes...

But then the need to negate the major penalties Mercer created for firearms in exchange for big damage just really ate up a bunch of slots, y'know?

It's why I've got my own Gunslinger -class- for Martial Artistry.

View attachment 384607
There's a lot more room in a full class for the tropes and identity of a gunslinging character. Not just Quickdraw, but things like hitting the deck when someone's firing at you. Making better use of cover than most characters 'cause gunfighters diving behind tables or hiding behind pillars in firefights is an important visual concept.

There's even Hognose Flop in there for feigning death after taking a hit, then they roll you over and you shoot them point blank.

And because the class has that much flavor of it's own, it can support subclasses of different kinds of gunslingers (Bushwhacker, Desperado, Maverick, Pistolero) so you get more character variety.

Anyway... yeah. It's a whooole thing.

But before anyone thinks I wanna yuck their yum: It's a different style and a different goal in the end.

The Gunslinger Archetype was made for Percival de Rolo. It was meant to facilitate that campaign's specific storytelling methods and concepts and there's nothing wrong with people liking or using it.

I just feel there's more that can be done in that design space. And find WotC's devotion to trying to just have the 13 base classes with an ever-expanding list of subclasses is not the right direction to go for getting deeper into character design. Shallow and wide isn't the worst thing... but it's not the best, either.
I guess you have thought about it a little bit. ;)

I never played Pathfinder, so I'm not sure how faithfully Matt's Gunslinger subclass compared to its Pathfinder class predecessor. I did try to convert it to a homebrew Marksman subclass using bows and crossbows, with Misfire becoming Fracturing (splintering of wood and/or snapping of bowstrings due to higher damage trick shots), but I never got the chance to play-test it. And I certainly never gave any thought to the probability of how frequently it occurs (I started my college career as a Statistics major, but quickly got lost and changed to an Accounting degree). I even added a Composite Bow, Recurve Bow, and Recurve Crossbow, and a nifty little chart to include all their fracture rates:

1730410287540.png


But, with the advent of the 2024 rulebooks, I'll probably abandon most of my old homebrew material. Maybe I'll take a look at your Gunslinger class, which I presume is on DriveThruRPG.
 

I guess you have thought about it a little bit. ;)

I never played Pathfinder, so I'm not sure how faithfully Matt's Gunslinger subclass compared to its Pathfinder class predecessor. I did try to convert it to a homebrew Marksman subclass using bows and crossbows, with Misfire becoming Fracturing (splintering of wood and/or snapping of bowstrings due to higher damage trick shots), but I never got the chance to play-test it. And I certainly never gave any thought to the probability of how frequently it occurs (I started my college career as a Statistics major, but quickly got lost and changed to an Accounting degree). I even added a Composite Bow, Recurve Bow, and Recurve Crossbow, and a nifty little chart to include all their fracture rates:

View attachment 384611

But, with the advent of the 2024 rulebooks, I'll probably abandon most of my old homebrew material. Maybe I'll take a look at your Gunslinger class, which I presume is on DriveThruRPG.
Not -yet-... but soonish.

There's 5 pieces of art I have commissioned that I'm still waiting on (including the cover) and then I just have to get it edited and set up in layout. Then? DTRPG for PDF and PoD!
 

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