The Romance of the River Kingdoms

[Shayuri]

Er...wait wait.

Improved Natural Attack increases the damage of one natural attack as if one size higher. A grapple is neither a "natural attack" (which is very specifically defined in 3.5e) nor does it do damage in and of itself (though you can do damage IN a grapple, once it's been established), and is therefore ineligble for that feat.

I'm not sure I'm getting the problem here. A size level of difference results in a +4 grapple bonus to the larger. Just take Improved Grapple. The bonus from that is identical. A medium creature with Improved Grapple is at effectively no disadvantage against a large creature that lacks it.

Isn't that what you're looking for?

 

[Theroc]

Take improved natural attack it gives you effective size increase and grab with natural weapons is also an attack. I don't think it to be too great a strecth to give size bonus for grabbing.

Well, SRD says damage increases as if the size was greater, doesn't actually make it greater. But if Simon would allow Improved Natural attack to enable improved grab, that'd be awesome.

 

[Theroc]

Er...wait wait.

Improved Natural Attack increases the damage of one natural attack as if one size higher. A grapple is neither a "natural attack" (which is very specifically defined in 3.5e) nor does it do damage in and of itself (though you can do damage IN a grapple, once it's been established), and is therefore ineligble for that feat.

I'm not sure I'm getting the problem here. A size level of difference results in a +4 grapple bonus to the larger. Just take Improved Grapple. The bonus from that is identical. A medium creature with Improved Grapple is at effectively no disadvantage against a large creature that lacks it.

Isn't that what you're looking for?

Shayuri, what I was looking for was allowing "Improved Grab(not grapple... significant difference here)" to be usable with a medium sized Nai-Nek-Chai animal form against a medium sized opponent.

Special Abilities :: d20srd.org

"Unless otherwise noted, improved grab works only against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature."

This ability is attached to several medium sized animals a Nai-Nek-Chai can transform into.

 

[Shayuri]

Ahhh, my bad.

Well, there's Small critters in this game. Heck, some Small PC races.

Or maybe you can get the shaman to cast Animal Growth on you.

 

[Theroc]

Ahhh, my bad.

Well, there's Small critters in this game. Heck, some Small PC races.

Or maybe you can get the shaman to cast Animal Growth on you.

Eh... true, but I dislike relying on someone else to use my primary attack method on a foe. That's why I was hoping for some form of feat or effect or Bloodline that would enable it. But without those, I won't concern myself with the improved grab based concepts, which narrows my list(as awesome as I think the grab concept would be for crowd control)

 

[Neurotic]

Also, Theroc, you don't have to wait on zenos. You make your char from one of the concepts and let HIM fill the other role.

 

[Theroc]

Also, Theroc, you don't have to wait on zenos. You make your char from one of the concepts and let HIM fill the other role.

I could, but any of the ideas work for me overall, and I'd rather not stick him if he has one he'd rather do.

 

[Theroc]

Hm... I believe if Simon's already away for the weekend, I'll attempt to roll up a character sheet for each of my concepts(including a few that use the improved grab) depending on what Simon decides for feats/Bloodlines and the like.

 

[Dr Simon]

Improved Natural Attack increases damage, nothing else.

The Improved Grab ability gives you the opportunity to initiate a grapple with an attack that also causes damages, a standard melee attack. Normal grappling requires an attack, but the first one is just a touch attack that causes no damage (to grab hold). So you can still grapple a Medium opponent, just not cause damage with that first strike.

Given the requirements for that homebrew feat, I don't think it's a deal-breaker. I'd remove the BAB requirements, really.

Re: Rogue/Monk. At 3rd level, that build would be BAB +1, but you could augment your chance to hit with a high Strength and Weapon Focus (or a high Dexterity, Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus). Plus a reliance on terrain or teamwork.

Beast Spirit Bloodline: Wouldn't have Powerful Build, no, nor any bonus to grappling/grabbing as this would not be appropriate to all beasts. Probably more along the lines of improved natural armour, improved natural weapons, raised Strength and Dex and increased senses.

 

[Theroc]

Alrighty, couple more questions:
For character creation: Do we need you to roll for level 2&3 as we generate? Also, are you still using the Grace/Health variant?

Working on a T'laxu Monk and a couple Nai-nek-chai.

I've realized I've a heavy preference towards the Nai-nek-Chai, probably primarily due to issues with Multiple Ability Dependency making my monk concept difficult to work on... though I've a rought draft mostly finished.

Tzin Soo's not prettified character sheet.
[sblock]

[B]Name:[/B] Tzin Soo
[B]Class:[/B] Monk 2/Tlaxu 1
[B]Race:[/B] Tlaxu
[B]Size:[/B] Medium
[B]Gender:[/B] Male

[B]Str:[/B] 13 +1 (04p.)     [B]Level:[/B] 3        [B]XP:[/B] XXXX
[B]Dex:[/B] 15 +2 (06p.)     [B]BAB:[/B] +2         [B]HP:[/B] XXX (XdX+XX)
[B]Con:[/B] 14 +2 (06p.)     [B]Grapple:[/B] +4     [B]Dmg Red:[/B] None
[B]Int:[/B] 13 +1 (05p.)     [B]Speed:[/B] 30'      [B]Spell Res:[/B] XX
[B]Wis:[/B] 15 +2 (05p.)     [B]Init:[/B] +2        [B]Spell Save:[/B] +X
[B]Cha:[/B] 08 -1 (00p.)     [B]ACP:[/B] -0         [B]Spell Fail:[/B] XX%

                   [B]Base  Armor Shld   Dex  Size   Nat  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Armor:[/B]              10    +0    +0    +2    +0    +0    +1    13
[B]Touch:[/B] 13              [B]Flatfooted:[/B] 10

                         [B]Base   Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Fort:[/B]                      3    +2          =5
[B]Ref:[/B]                       5    +2          =7
[B]Will:[/B]                      3    +1          =4

[B]Weapon                  Attack   Damage     Critical[/B]
Claws(x2)                 +3     1d4+2      20-20x2
Unarmed                   +3     1d6+2      20-20x2
Kama                      +3     1d6+2      20-20x2
Throwing Stick(x2)        +4     1d4+1      20-20x3
Shortspear(x3)            +4     1d6+1      20-20x3


[B]Languages:[/B] Low Imperial, Tlaxan, High Imperial

[B]Abilities:[/B] 
Low Light Visions
+2 racial bonus to Listen, Spot, Search and Sense Motive
checks, and to Survival checks for the purposes
of tracking.
+2 bonus to climb checks when using claws
Scent
Tzun Soo Style Martial Arts(Monk bonus feat track)

[B]Feats:[/B]
Dodge(Monk Bonus)
Combat Expertise(Monk Bonus)
Improved Unarmed (Monk Bonus)
Flurry of Blows(Monk Bonus)
Defensive Strike
Mobility


[B]Skill Points:[/B] 28       [B]Max Ranks:[/B] 6/3
[B]Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
Jump                       4    +1       +0    =5
Balance                    2    +2       +0    =4
Climb                      2    +1       +0    =3
Concentration              2    +2       +0    =4
Escape Artist              2    +2       +0    =4
Hide                       2    +2       +0    =4
Knwdge(Arcana)             1    +1       +0    =2
Knwgde(Religion)           1    +1       +0    =2
Listen                     2    +2       +2    =6
Move Silently              2    +2       +0    =4
Sense Motive               2    +2       +2    =6
Spot                       2    +2       +2    =6
Swim                       2    +1       +0    =3
Tumble                     2    +2       +0    =4



[B]Equipment:               Cost  Weight[/B]
Kama                     02gp   02lb
Throwing Stick(x2)       66gp   0.4lb
Shortspear(x3)           03gp   09lb
XXXX                     XXgp   XXlb
[B]Total Weight:[/B]XXlb      [B]Money:[/B] 229gp XXsp XXcp

                           [B]Lgt   Med   Hvy  Lift  Push[/B]
[B]Max Weight:[/B]               XXX   XXX   XXX   XXX   XXX

[B]Age:[/B] XX
[B]Height:[/B] X'XX"
[B]Weight:[/B] XXXlb
[B]Eyes:[/B] XXXX
[B]Hair:[/B] XXXX
[B]Skin:[/B] XXXX

Appearance: XXXX

Background: XXXX[/sblock]

Will whip up two other concepts. I'm currently opting towards a more melee bent since I am still thinking Zenos is going caster, and because I believe Neurotic has 'sneak' down.

Ideas to be done hopefully tomorrow:
Nai-Nek-Chai Barbarian (Crocodile)
Nai-Nek-Chai Rogue (Leopard)

Question: Are the Unearthed Arcana Variant classes available?