The rules should serve the game, not vice-versa

[Psion]

Too many players think that everything, and I mean EVERYTHING should be available to them.

"Mage of the Shining Star Desert" PrC? The players wants it, even if his PC misses the critical requirement: Must be born in the Shining Star Desert on a clear and moonless night.

Oh, wait, those kinds of PreRequisites aren't in fashion, so the GM should remove all non-mechanics PreRek's from PrC's and Feats and such.

Now that's what I am talking about. I would so tell the player who said that "too bad. Find another game if you don't like it."

I'm pretty reasonable and try to give the players a lot of options.

But, in 2e, I had a player who wanted to play what he perceived as the best race, but also wanted to play what he perceived as the best kit, which was for humans.

I told him no. Campaign consistency is not to be sacrificed on the altar of twinking.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Actually, it is somewhat of a sore nerve with me. I've had players (some of whom are no longer with my group) tell me that anything the NPC's can take, they should be able to take, and that Wizards recommended the dropping of all non-mechanic prerequisites.

Wizards is a putz. Non-mechanic prerequisites are a valid choice. Have them look at the assassin prereq some time.

I can understand your point. What you are dealing with is far and away different that what I put my players through. They KNOW that thier main opponent is a 2,000 year old immortal who is thouroughly multiclassed (They beat her often in the political arena, and run for it otherwise), but they have thier own benifits.

Yours sounds more like "I can make cool stuff and you can't!"

Good luck.

Yeah. I've been playing DnD for a while. Playing a human fighter just doesn't do it for me anymore. But when I want to play something different, like anything with an ECL above 3, or a new class, or try a new feat, it's like pulling balor teeth.

I can hear the DM thinking, "Why don't you just play something normal? My god, your going to screw up game balance. Can't have anything different cause it must be twinky... "

 

[Snoweel]

Actually, I don't allow non-human PCs, but it has nothing to do with game balance (ECL takes care of that).

The reason I don't want Illithid/Medusa/Half-Elemental/whatever PCs IMC is because they completely ruin the mood of my setting - such a character would dominate the game because they would dominate NPC attention. Could the PCs really wander around the docks solving the mystery and keeping a low profile if one of their number was a Minotaur? Would they truly get an invite to the local Lord's feast if one of their number was a Thri-Kreen?

"You can come in but you'll have to chain your bug up outside; away from the horses!"

I spend enough time thinking about NPC motivations without having to also come up with how they might react when faced with a Savage Species-style multicultural freakshow.

"A human, a gnome, a bugbear and a celestial half-dragon drow walk into a bar..."

 

[Fenes]

Actually, I don't allow non-human PCs, but it has nothing to do with game balance (ECL takes care of that).

The reason I don't want Illithid/Medusa/Half-Elemental/whatever PCs IMC is because they completely ruin the mood of my setting - such a character would dominate the game because they would dominate NPC attention. Could the PCs really wander around the docks solving the mystery and keeping a low profile if one of their number was a Minotaur? Would they truly get an invite to the local Lord's feast if one of their number was a Thri-Kreen?

"You can come in but you'll have to chain your bug up outside; away from the horses!"

I spend enough time thinking about NPC motivations without having to also come up with how they might react when faced with a Savage Species-style multicultural freakshow.

"A human, a gnome, a bugbear and a celestial half-dragon drow walk into a bar..."

That is a crux of mine as well. Seeing as my campaigns are heavy on social interaction the ECL alone does not balance freaks out. And I refuse to turn a campaign that spans years into a constant "see how yet another town deals with your drow/dragon/bug enter"-slideshow.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Hmmm, I'd see if adding the ECL of any given half-/quarterbreed to his DCs for social interaction skills with "normal" folks does the trick.

If you want to add a dosage of freak-out to your campaign, simply shift the initial disposition of an NPC towards a more negative one for anybody with obviously more than one race inside his blood.

On the other hand, simply banning them from your game, except for a few very special cases, is the easiest solution.

 

[S'mon]

Psion - I'm so honoured, I don't think I've ever made it into a sig line before, never mind that of an EN World alumni like everyone's favourite Illithidae!

Re campaign mood - I agree, that's my prime determinant of what I allow. IMC - low-fantasy sword & sorcery where the 'fay races' like elves & dwarves are dying out - you're more likely to meet an immortal half-demon (in human form!) than a gnome, and halflings are extinct.

 

[Fenes]

Hmmm, I'd see if adding the ECL of any given half-/quarterbreed to his DCs for social interaction skills with "normal" folks does the trick.

If you want to add a dosage of freak-out to your campaign, simply shift the initial disposition of an NPC towards a more negative one for anybody with obviously more than one race inside his blood.

On the other hand, simply banning them from your game, except for a few very special cases, is the easiest solution.

My main concern is not the DC and such, but the sheer impact a freak character has on social interaction - a thri-kreen, f.e., will attract a lot of attention of all kinds, and most of the encounter will be influenced. Especially meeting new people will almost always result in the freak taking center stage in the beginning, and the party having to explain his or her or its presence and damage control. That's just not my cup of tea, and as a player I would get sick of always having to wait the obligatory attention-hogging scene of "meet the freak".

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Actually, it is somewhat of a sore nerve with me. I've had players (some of whom are no longer with my group) tell me that anything the NPC's can take, they should be able to take, and that Wizards recommended the dropping of all non-mechanic prerequisites.

Wizards is a putz. Non-mechanic prerequisites are a valid choice. Have them look at the assassin prereq some time.

Actually, Ralts, your player was misinformed in the matter. From Monte Cooks Prestige Class Seminar:

So let's take a look at these requirements (from Isida KepTukari's bondblade prestige class):

Requirements:
Craft (Weaponsmithing) - 6 ranks
Feats - Weapon Focus*, Alertness, Quick Draw
BAB - +5
Special - Must have used a single martial or exotic melee masterwork weapon (or a mace, spear or morning star) consistently and primarily** during the last three levels leading up to taking this prestige class.

(There are other requirements, but I didn't include them here because they are flavor related. They make the class interesting, and I highly recommend including things like that, but they have no place in a discussion of balance.)

Now, the way I've read this (the last paragraph) is that, in a published product, non-mechanical prerequisites aren't suitable because those requirements assume that such things are important or relevant to the individual group; if they aren't, then the requirement isn't going to ammount to a hill of beans. However (!), such requirements, when relevant to the individual group, can (and indeed should!) be added by the GM whenever and where-ever appropriate, suitable, and sensible.

If ever told that it should be otherwise, my response would be very much in the same vein as Psion's...

..."too bad. Find another game if you don't like it."

Without any qualms, hesitation, or guilt.

 

[Desdichado]

You don't use the PC-wealth-by-level table?

Nope.

Do you use 25 point buy or 3/4d6? - Unless you use 3d6 assign in order they must still be better than the truly 'average' NPC, even if most of their opposition are Elite.

Neither -- standard array + 3 for PCs and most NPCs that I end up statting. More for certain NPCs that are extremely competent. My PCs are absolutely not better than the truly "average" NPC unless they are higher level.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Actually, I don't allow non-human PCs, but it has nothing to do with game balance (ECL takes care of that).

The reason I don't want Illithid/Medusa/Half-Elemental/whatever PCs IMC is because they completely ruin the mood of my setting - such a character would dominate the game because they would dominate NPC attention. Could the PCs really wander around the docks solving the mystery and keeping a low profile if one of their number was a Minotaur? Would they truly get an invite to the local Lord's feast if one of their number was a Thri-Kreen?

"You can come in but you'll have to chain your bug up outside; away from the horses!"

I spend enough time thinking about NPC motivations without having to also come up with how they might react when faced with a Savage Species-style multicultural freakshow.

"A human, a gnome, a bugbear and a celestial half-dragon drow walk into a bar..."

Yeah, I guess that makes sense if your campaign is centered on humans.



I personally am bored with games and settings that focus primarily on humans, such as Wheel of Time, 7th Sea and L5R. Even Forgotten Realms bugs me a little. (Look at the % of humans in each city in FR.) The quasi-medieval-human-European setting just doesn't work for me, but that is just a matter of taste.

I like settings that are more diverse (such as Planescape, which is almost as diverse as you can get.) The "docks" in your example could be run by water elementals and mephits. The "Lord" could be a half-celestial noble djinn.

Who is going to question a minotaur?