The Shadar-kai are NEVER going to be the next drow

[Clavis]

Were you actually live in Seattle? Because when I saw Alice in Chains and Soundgarden in concert back in 1989, neither me or my friends were in any way into metal at the time. In fact, we had a pretty healthy dislike of about 90% of the metal that was popular back then. We lived in Pullman WA, just over the mountains from Seattle, and to us, they fit perfectly in with the college and alternative rock scene which was usually composed of some local bands as well as some that came in from Seattle. As an aside, I actually enjoyed one of our local bands more than Soundgarden when they played here and their guitarist actually went on to play with someone somewhat large, I think Mud Honey - but not positive.

No, I was in NJ. Obviously, you know what your own experiences were, and it would be stupid for me to try and argue them. I can only say that around here, those bands were definitely identified as metal bands, and were only listened to by metalheads before '92. Your experience demonstrates, whoever, why they became popular (because they had cross-scene appeal).

As for the flannel thing, there were a lot of us wearing it before Nirvana broke, not because it was cheap or metal, but because we liked it. Eh, it was a strange time and there were a lot of emerging trends that piggybacked on other things in different areas.

That's sure true. Around these parts, though, flannel was also definitely a metal thing before '92, and many metalheads would typically wear a band t-shirt, with a flannel over it, and a leather or denim jacket over that. The other great thing about flannel was it was a thick cloth, and as part of your layers it would give you some more protection while moshing.

And no, the Shadar-Kai are certainly not metal. Maybe emo, but not metal.

On that we are 100% in agreement!

 

[Clavis]

And while I'm probably in a minority, I'm still waiting for a cool villain race, because the Drow and Gith aren't. The Gith could be, but the Drow have never been very interesting.

The thing with the Drow is that they were sexy. I always saw them as essentially a big FemDom BDSM fantasy. I went with it, and just described them as dressed up in bondage gear, and had the females behaving like real-world professional Dominas.

 

[Tewligan]

Yeah, and that seldom works.

Anyone remember Desmondu? :\

Cheers, -- N

Ha! I was going to make that same reference, but I couldn't remember their name. Shows how well that worked out...

 

[Kesh]

So they're Blood Elves?

Cheers, -- N

Yes.

/dance

 

[Tewligan]

These descriptions of the Shadar-kai remind me a bit of the Qullan, also from the original FF. They were freaky, tattooed berserkers who got off on pain and scarification. They also had a permanent Chaos field around them. Me, I'd like to see these guys come back.

If I recall correctly (often a big "if"), the qullan were the creation of our own Plane Sailing.

 

[Kesh]

The reason I exclude metal is because it seems to be the antithesis of what metal had traditionally been. It was not about gravity defying guitar solos, looking pretty, singing pretty, or even making sense half the time. It was very introspective and political, which are two things metal typically is not.

That sounds like glam rock, which I never considered metal anyway. Poison and Winger aren't metal, they're what happened when metal went pop. Kinda how Emo is when Goth went pop.

 

[Voadam]

No, but it should be at least kind of funny, and that wasn't. That was stupid. Stupid and funny can be good; stupid and unfunny isn't.


And while I'm probably in a minority, I'm still waiting for a cool villain race, because the Drow and Gith aren't. The Gith could be, but the Drow have never been very interesting. Mind Flayers should be, but I think they lack an appropriate volume of material. But I did miss a bunch of 2nd Edition books, so maybe I missed something there. I do remember a pretty cool MF article in Dragon from way back, but I don't know that anything was ever built on that.

From 2e

A sourcebook on them:

Illithiad

And a trilogy of modules based on them:

A Darkness Gathering

Dawn of the Overmind

Masters of the Eternal Night

as well as a few other less prominent appearances

 

[LordVyreth]

I find the idea that the FF was intentionally designed to make the next drow/gith very interesting, especially since that's been my favorite of the MM expansions (though that might just be a balance issue as much as everything.) If the kaorti won that competition, the Shadar-Kai came in second, and the Ethergaunts were in the middle, what other examples filled up the rest of the book? The Nerra I heard mention; what else? If we could come up with a comprehensive list, I would love to see people's rankings of them; especially Eric's!

 

[Evilhalfling]

I find the idea that the FF was intentionally designed to make the next drow/gith very interesting, what other examples filled up the rest of the book? The Nerra I heard mention; what else? If we could come up with a comprehensive list, I would love to see people's rankings of them; especially Eric's!

this list is drawn from memory and is short on proper names:

Sulks
Anti-magic lizardmen (Magic eaters?)
Finnish dwarves (w/giant wives)
3 new formorians
True neutral shape shifting outsiders (?)
Nerra - outsiders from the mirror plane
ethergaunts
Korti
newt men (?)
Verrogin (?) abyssal bat-vampire men, 3 types
Shadar-Kai
Abyssal ghouls

At least some were seen before this book
Some worked, some did not, ratio was better than the orginal FF
Any nominations for the worst concept in the book?

 

[Jhaelen]

So they're Blood Elves?

Hmm, I'm not so sure about that. The ritual that turns them into blood elves was originally invented to protect themselves from the influence of the horrors. Only a lot later (well after the Scourge) they started to take pride in their change and started feeling superior to other races. I think the change in their mentality was triggered by the negative reaction of the other races towards their transformation.

The 4E Shadar-Kai immediately reminded me of Clive Barker's Cenobites (Hellraiser...). I think, I liked them better in 3E.