The Shadar-kai are NEVER going to be the next drow

[Umbran]

I remember reading an ecology of article on these guys and thinking, "Where did they come from."

I've seen 'em used a few more times.

Does it seem like WoTC is trying to make the next "great" enemy race? The next gith? The next drow?

Well, let me ask you a question first - one article and "used a few more times" is enough exposture to think of it as a full-fledged force-feeding campaign? To me, that sounds like an unsupported jump. I mean, I hang out here all the time, and I don't know anything about these guys.

How force-fed can they be if people active on a major site devoted to the game haven't heard of them?

 

[Masquerade]

Personally, I love the Shadar-kai and plan to use them. Am I alone?

You're not alone! I was about to post the same thing.

Admittedly, I've never used Shadar-kai in my 3e/3.5 games, but I already have big plans for them in 4e.

 

[Set]

I'd like to see more of those mirror people, the Nerra? Those sounded cool.

 

[mhensley]

They are definitely somebody's pet project. I can't stand them.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Well, let me ask you a question first - one article and "used a few more times" is enough exposture to think of it as a full-fledged force-feeding campaign?

Not at all. Never once in my OP did I say that.

To me, that sounds like an unsupported jump. I mean, I hang out here all the time, and I don't know anything about these guys.

How force-fed can they be if people active on a major site devoted to the game haven't heard of them?

And yet, there are free articles about them on the WoTC site so how active are you in the game? They've been printed in Fiend Folio and Ecologies and the reprint in the paperback book ecologies.

To me, it's a waste.

When WoTC is saying, "No Frost Giant or these dragons in the 4e MM because there is no room" and at the same time publishes stuff about some third rate drow and apparently have plans for them in 4e... well, it just seems like bad marketing to me.

Mind you I don't think they stink.

But in order to make them useful, as well as things like the Ethergaunt and other neat races from the Fiend Folio, they have to do something in some type of mega adventure that is good and is looked at as a shared experience much like the old drow adventurers were. They need novels and other support. Some game talk isn't going to do it. They need "faces".

 

[Kunimatyu]

I think Shadar-Kai got picked because WotC needed to flesh out the Plane of Shadow, er, Shadowfell since it's now much more important -- witness borderline monsters like Shadow Mastiffs sticking around in the core MM.

I don't totally hate the S-Kai, but if you want malice drained of emotion, you go to the yugoloths, who would have been perfect fiends of the Shadowfell. Instead of getting petitioners/larva, they could capture the shades of mortals lingering on the plane to use for unspeakably awful things.

 

[Erik Mona]

I can't recall if Chris Thomasson or Jesse Decker came up with the Shadar-Kai, but it was definitely part of the big "gith candidate" design goal that wove through the Fiend Folio assignments. Each of us designed a monster that, like drow and gith, had a couple of different incarnations and that would potentially be cool enough to stand the test of time. As someone above said, this obviously has something to do with art, so it wasn't a pure design challenge.

Mine was the ethergaunt, which since it was mentioned twice already in this thread means it has now been discussed online a total of seven times. I'm not sure I succeeded in the challenge, is what I'm saying, but it's nice to see the mention.

Unsurprisingly, James Jacobs had the best and most enduring entry with the kaorti.

I wrote a blog entry about this three years ago. You guys might find it interesting.

--Erik Mona

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I personally think the Shadar-Kai could become a very interesting major-power in D&D, just gonna quote what I said about them from the 4e Forum:

I think the Shadar-Kai could be taken in a very-interesting light if you wish too focus less on the masochistic tendencies and more on the sensationalist tendencies.

The reason they explore new manners of pain is too keep their minds grounded in reality so that they do not "die" by becoming distanced from what is real and essentially becoming another being of the Shadowfell.

It makes sense that masochism would be appropriate with the Shadar-Kai in the Shadowfell given the connection between pain and the onslaught of possible demise. But, we also see they are masters of combat and strive to become the best at what they can do. Each high and exhalation in combat (almost say to the degree of sadism) also keeps them grounded since these are the final sensations left that can keep them grounded, all others having been exhausted long ago.

I could also see this love of combat and understanding of death working in-tune with the Raven Queen. I could imagine a army calling upon the Raven Queen to give them her "Children of Death", summoning generals and soldiers of the Shadar-Kai to help lead them in war.

 

[Umbran]

And yet, there are free articles about them on the WoTC site so how active are you in the game?

Ah, so now anyone who doesn't spend lots of time reading a specific site is now not active in the game? If gamers number in the millions, and the website-readers are in the thousands or tens of thousands, I think you'll find that idea pretty unsupportable.

My point is kind of the opposite of yours - you say that unless they have major novels and such, they cannot turn them into the next drow. I'm saying that unless they have novels and adventures and stuff they clearly aren't trying to make them the next drow - there is no clear attempt to make them ubiquitous.

The exposure is the evidence of the effort, not a prerequisite to start the effort.

They've been printed in Fiend Folio and Ecologies and the reprint in the paperback book ecologies.

Well, every monster has a listing in some book or other - and the Fiend Folio is now, what, four years old? If this is all they have in four years, I can hardly think WotC is trying to do anything much with them at all. They may have had that in mind back with the original writing of the book, but it sure doesn't sound like they followed up with it much.

 

[Graf]

See mona's post above.