The Shadow Knows! (Final Update 6/3/04)

[The Shadow]

My sincerest congratulations are in order - this is one of the finest Story Hours I've yet read.

Thanks! Glad you're enjoying it.

Listing the things I think are excellently done would take too long, so I'll only state that you're doing a wonderful job.

Awww, don't be shy. Feel free to tell me all the things I do excellently.

I have only two complaints, and they are related. First, the emphasis on superscience is perhaps just a bit excessive. Garrity is beginning to enter the realm of Star Trek technobabble, where any problem can be solved with the waving of hands and some random terminology. If anything is possible, nothing is significant or meaningful any longer - I would respectfully suggest that Garrity's technological abilities be toned down. Unlimited magic is rarely interesting, and disguising Merlin with devices isn't successful very often.

SP and I heartily agree that there are dramatic dangers in the Shadow leaning too heavily on technology. I wanted him to have a bit of an exotic edge (especially in cases where his powers were not very useful) but not to have it overshadow him (pardon the pun .

This is why I bought him a very small Gadget pool (he could in theory buy weapons and armor with it, but they'd be considerably weaker than his mundane gun and vest), and why I further hamstrung it with unreliability. Every time after the first that a given gadget is used, SP rolls a die to see if it actually works. You'll note that the Shaolin device fizzled out catastrophically during the fight with Legion. You can't generally go out and buy batteries for Garrity-tech at the store, and he's the only one who can fix them!

What's more, defining a Gadget in M&M always requires a Hero Point, which are a highly limited and valuable resource - very useful in combat, among other things. I am vividly aware that every time Alex pulls out a Gadget, I am sacrificing combat effectiveness later.

Even with all that, it would seem that there is some feeling that things are a bit much. No doubt in part because OmniMetal (not Hal) supplied some useful gimmicks this time around. I suspect that source has now thoroughly dried up. But we'll definitely take the matter under advisement.

However, we also think you're confusing Alex's jokes with Alex's real attitude, and further confusing Alex's attitude with OUR attitude. It is by no means true that Hal can do anything, or that he is "Merlin". SP has ruled out several proposed gadgets and capabilities, and he hasn't always told me why - it's his campaign world, after all.

Alex jokes about Hal's "magic" precisely because he knows it ISN'T magic - and because it gets under Hal's skin. There is also an in-joke involved here; the various incarnations of the Shadow, as I mentioned in the post on his RL origins this page, have always been rabidly empirical and anti-magic. It's entirely possible that the ribbing going on between SP and me in those scenes are going over other people's heads.

Finally, while Hal does at times veer slightly into Treknobabble, I think maybe you misinterpret. His problem is that he is so far beyond the state of the art that there are no words or concepts in English to express the way his stuff works. So he fumbles around trying to say SOMETHING, and then has to give up. Hence the "Oh, never mind!" This is quite unlike Geordi, whose writers just make up new (supposedly well-known and reproducible) capabilities on the spot whenever it's convenient.

Secondly, the claim that psi cannot be reproduced by technology is simply ludicrous, particularly given Garrity's abilities in other matters. Garrity is either grossly mistaken, or he's lying to Alex.

In a campaign where the characters, their motivations, their powers, and their effects on the world around them are so carefully and completely thought out, it is disturbing to see magic windows, flying motorcycles, untraceable phones and instachemistry together. Any one of those things would be plausible in a superscience setting, but not all of them.

You seem to have some very rigid views on what "superscience" and "psionics" are, and what they are capable of. Suffice to say that we do not share these views. And that we regard it as a bit unusual, to say no more, for someone to call our coherent, consistent treatment of a fictional topic "ludicrous". And heck, maybe Hal IS grossly mistaken. We've never claimed or implied he's omniscient; in fact, he's been mistaken several times in the campaign already.

I personally find it a bit amusing that you don't list the two gadgets that really are impossible under current physics (the disintegrator and the phasing device) and instead list those that are all well within the projected capabilities of current technologies in the next few decades: handheld devices not unlike the Portable Window (only much more specialized and not as miniaturized, true - but on the other hand they're ranged) already exist; I myself can guess how an untraceable phone would work, though the technology to build it isn't quite here yet; and there are people feverishly working right now on projects that they hope will make "instachemistry" possible before too long. The flying motorcycle is admittedly far more speculative, but even antigravity isn't nearly as taboo a topic as it used to be, and I've seen scientific papers in reputable journals on gravity shielding. (I have degrees in chemistry and physics, and SP in math and a minor in computer science. Loren has 'em in English and engineering physics. Yes, he's schizoid.

Finally, we'd just like to point out that, although scarcely four-color, this is still a comic-book campaign, and that Hal is pretty darn toned down compared to comic geniuses like Reed Richards, Lex Luthor, or Forge.

 

[The Shadow]

Hmm, where'd all my Adoring Fans (TM) go? It's pretty silent.

Or are you just all still reading that mammoth update post?

 

[Lela]

Sorry to vanish on you Shadow. As I mentioned, it's just Finals hitting me. I'll bounce back in about two weeks (yes, next week is only the week before Finals).

I gotta say I'm both impressed and worried by you're intense personal seperation from Alex and the Shaddow. You seem to have become those character(s) so deeply that it's a little scary.

Part of why I find you fascinating, actually. You've really inspired me to think a lot more about my characters than I ever have before. One, in a way, is even based somewhat off The Shaddow. Kinda a dark Batman/Shaddow/actual criminal thing going on.

In any case, I'm glad to have you back. It's continues to be one of the most inspiring reads I've ever experienced. Rock on.

And, oh, let me just mention,

"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?"

...the line between good and evil runs through every human heart...

"The Shadow knows."

Gorgious line. Perfect.

 

[Hellzon]

Hmm, where'd all my Adoring Fans (TM) go? It's pretty silent.

Or are you just all still reading that mammoth update post?

No no, I'm still here.

 

[The Shadow]

Sorry to vanish on you Shadow. As I mentioned, it's just Finals hitting me. I'll bounce back in about two weeks (yes, next week is only the week before Finals).

I know how it is - I tutor desperate college students in the weeks leading up to finals.

I gotta say I'm both impressed and worried by you're intense personal seperation from Alex and the Shaddow. You seem to have become those character(s) so deeply that it's a little scary.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean ("personal separation"?), or why it's scary?

I do get into my characters, no question. Once when arguing with SP about experience points after an intense Champions game, SP finally said, "That's it! I refuse to carry on an argument with the Phantom!" We still laugh about this, and he was right; I was still in "Phantom-mode" as the game ended, and he's a good deal more assertive than I generally am in real life. (Mild-mannered Clark Kent, that's me!

But there isn't a one of my characters that isn't a reflection of me in some way, in whatever distorted funhouse mirror; if they weren't, I wouldn't be able to play them. I do not become other than what I in some sense already am, even if in a magnified and twisted way, and through the lens of capabilities I don't actually have.

I don't see this as scary, I see it as good acting - getting into the role. I did some acting in high school, and was moderately good at it.

But if it's any comfort to you, these writeups are definitely "dressed up" from what they are when actually played. There's plenty of OOC chatter between me and SP - joking around, teasing, reminiscing about our mutual past, cursing in awed tones (generally me, during "big" scary scenes like Legion's birth), and so on.

I also add a lot of touches to the writeups that never happened during the game. For example, I deliberately added the bit about Alex fixing omelets for Carlos after it was all over - I was inspired by Johnson's omelet proverb, and thought it would make some great foreshadowing and also supply me with a neat title.

If you're curious about what Alex reflects in me, I suspect it's that I was very much an outsider and a loner in high school. I felt very misunderstood and put upon, and not without reason; I was intensely shy, reserved, and guarded. I have largely outgrown this, but I suspect Alex is a reflection of that aspect of me, amplified, supported, and explained by his out-of-control telepathy.

On the other hand, I'm unmarried, far happier than Alex, practice a vibrant faith (I'm Catholic; Alex is at best an agnostic on his more dreamy days), and couldn't fight my way out of a wet paper bag. Plus I'm a slob, and he's a neatnik's neatnik.

Part of why I find you fascinating, actually. You've really inspired me to think a lot more about my characters than I ever have before. One, in a way, is even based somewhat off The Shaddow. Kinda a dark Batman/Shaddow/actual criminal thing going on.

Wow. Thanks - imitation really is the sincerest form of flattery.

I find that every minute spent putting thought into one's characters (and campaign worlds) pays off in-game by a factor of ten, if not more. Of course it can be overdone - you can spend so much time thinking (especially about campaign worlds...) that one never gets around to playing.

In any case, I'm glad to have you back. It's continues to be one of the most inspiring reads I've ever experienced. Rock on.

Consider me on-rocked. And I'm glad to BE back.

Gorgious line. Perfect.

Thanks. I'm very proud of that line. It's another bit that I added to the writeup that never actually got gamed.

P.S. Hellzon - glad to meet you. Feel free to comment; I'm something of a feedback whore.

 

[Lela]

I just thought it interesting how deep you get into your characters. They become real and definitally have their own lives. It's not something I normally see.

 

[The Shadow]

Got an email from SP apologizing for not contacting me before now... turns out he's been quite sick. AGAIN. I'm starting to worry about that lad.

He says he's going to try to call me Sunday, if he's up to it. We'll see.

 

[The Shadow]

I just thought it interesting how deep you get into your characters. They become real and definitally have their own lives. It's not something I normally see.

I love that kind of thing. It's a large part of what I game for. Playing cardboard cutouts just isn't fun; I want them to live and breathe.

It's an awesome moment when you're playing a character and suddenly you realize they're about to do something quite off-the-wall, even stupid, that you would never do yourself. The ride gets wilder at that point, and its essential to give them their head, so to speak.

One of the great turnarounds in my gaming career was when I took the plunge in this way. I'd gamed for years up to that point, and I was a good gamer in the sense that I created backstories, separated IC knowledge from OOC knowledge, and didn't need to always "win". But in a fundamental sense, my characters were just extensions of myself.

I vividly recall the moment when this changed. I was playing in a fantasy world the group had created together, based on the question, "What would Europe be like in the fourteenth century if magic had always existed and been a potent force? (And if certain fantasy races had always been running around too?)"

My character was David (no significance of the name re: the Shadow's son that I know of), a Cabalistic mage from Spain. Young, idealistic, very devout. He'd been deeply tainted with an ancient, warped elven magic and was becoming no longer quite human. This horrified him even more than you might expect, because it raised the question, "Am I still a Jew?"

Anyway, on a fey night there was much magic in the air, and the two Irish (and part-elven) members of the group were slipping tangibly into faerie roles - going atavistic, if you will. David likewise felt himself slipping into that alien frame of mind, his whole body responding to it - and reacted with instinctive revulsion.

We were using a home-brewed magic system, in which you could "push" a spell to more and more power, but with worse and worse consequences if you screwed up. David crafted a spell to oppose and destroy the elvish influence in the air and pushed it... and pushed it... and pushed it... and pushed it.

As I was sitting there rolling dice, I KNEW, I knew completely, that it was utterly stupid to push the spell that far. He was bound to fail, nothing would come of it, and SP would hammer us with it. I knew the smart thing to do was to cut my losses and move on. But David insisted - I don't know how else to put it. It was more important to him to push that spell than to go on living. So I let him.

Yes, the spell failed catastrophically. Yes, SP screwed us over with it royally. (Impromptu planar travel, anyone? Yes, it was one of the most glorious, exhilarating, magical scenes I've ever played in.

I've never looked back.

 

[The Shadow]

Double post, sorry. It's weird how this site's speed can turn around on a dime.

 

[Wrath of the Swarm]

You seem to have some very rigid views on what "superscience" and "psionics" are, and what they are capable of. Suffice to say that we do not share these views. And that we regard it as a bit unusual, to say no more, for someone to call our coherent, consistent treatment of a fictional topic "ludicrous". And heck, maybe Hal IS grossly mistaken. We've never claimed or implied he's omniscient; in fact, he's been mistaken several times in the campaign already.

Psionics, at worst, probably only requires new physics. I can swallow it for the sake of the story. I can accept superscience that involves new physics, but not when it requires throwing current physics completely out the window. Psionics that can't be reproduced mechanically, disintegration devices - they go against too much of what we know.

I personally find it a bit amusing that you don't list the two gadgets that really are impossible under current physics (the disintegrator and the phasing device) and instead list those that are all well within the projected capabilities of current technologies in the next few decades: handheld devices not unlike the Portable Window (only much more specialized and not as miniaturized, true - but on the other hand they're ranged) already exist; I myself can guess how an untraceable phone would work, though the technology to build it isn't quite here yet; and there are people feverishly working right now on projects that they hope will make "instachemistry" possible before too long. The flying motorcycle is admittedly far more speculative, but even antigravity isn't nearly as taboo a topic as it used to be, and I've seen scientific papers in reputable journals on gravity shielding. (I have degrees in chemistry and physics, and SP in math and a minor in computer science. Loren has 'em in English and engineering physics. Yes, he's schizoid.

There are certainly devices that can "look through" walls, but not with visible light. The device you described simply doesn't seem plausible. A very sensitive infrared scanner might have been believable, or even weak x-ray scanners, but not magic X-ray specs. Gravity shielding is even more of a problem, particularly since the Caverite paradox rears its ugly head.

Finally, we'd just like to point out that, although scarcely four-color, this is still a comic-book campaign, and that Hal is pretty darn toned down compared to comic geniuses like Reed Richards, Lex Luthor, or Forge.

Please don't get me started. I've always preferred the stories where I have a good sense of what is and isn't possible - so the differences become meaningful. If anything can happen, nothing that happens particularly matters. If you can just pull out a disintegration device and eliminate most evidence of a car crash (!!!), there's less sense of consequences.

At least you haven't tried to insert time travel. If you did that, I would probably go mad.