The Shadowcaster -weak?

[Schmoe]

I think I understand the logic of this change. Under the original rules, you had to complete Paths to get greater powers, and so there was a strong incentive to do so. The N#Bonus Feats were a counterweight that gives you an incentive to spread your choices around and widen rather than deepen your knowledge.

Now look at Ari's suggestions. Since you no longer need to follow a Path to get greater powers known, there's little incentive to do so. So now the Bonus Feats serve as a counterweight encouraging you to complete Paths.

I agree there are bunching effects, but this way the Bonus Feats do at least serve their original purpose.

Ah, that makes sense. Now that I understand these changes better, I like them much more. Looking back at what Ari suggested for changes, I think there's a significantly greater temptation for me to try the class. There are still a few things that I just plain don't like (multiple ability dependency being a primary one), but I think the class would be much more workable under these changes.

 

[Plane Sailing]

It makes me wish I could get hold of this class now - unfortunately I don't have any interest in the other two kinds of magic in that book, and I don't think I can justify the book based on 1/3 of its contents!

Cheers

 

[lukelightning]

It makes me wish I could get hold of this class now - unfortunately I don't have any interest in the other two kinds of magic in that book, and I don't think I can justify the book based on 1/3 of its contents!

I bought ToM for the shadow magic but quickly realized I liked the pact magic part much better. A binder with the right vestiges (e.g. Tenebrous and Haures) may be a better "shadow mage" than a shadowcaster.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I think I understand the logic of this change. Under the original rules, you had to complete Paths to get greater powers, and so there was a strong incentive to do so. The Bonus Feats were a counterweight that gives you an incentive to spread your choices around and widen rather than deepen your knowledge.

Now look at Ari's suggestions. Since you no longer need to follow a Path to get greater powers known, there's little incentive to do so. So now the Bonus Feats serve as a counterweight encouraging you to complete Paths.

I agree there are bunching effects, but this way the Bonus Feats do at least serve their original purpose.

That's it exactly. I wanted to keep the trade-off between going focused and going for versatility. The feats used to encourage one; now, since there's no need to encourage the one, they instead encourage the other.

 

[jcfiala]

1) Grant bonus mysteries per day based on Int. These would work just like bonus spells. For instance, if your Int is 14, you can cast one extra mystery of 1st-level equivalent and one of 2nd-level equivalent per day. (Note that each mystery does give an equivalent level, even though you don't learn them by level.)

So, this is a floating mystery use - if as a 4th level shadowcaster I've got 4 first level mysteries, and an int of 14, then I can use one of those first level mysteries twice?

I really like the feel of these changes. They sound like they'd be more useful.

 

[Mouseferatu]

So, this is a floating mystery use - if as a 4th level shadowcaster I've got 4 first level mysteries, and an int of 14, then I can use one of those first level mysteries twice?

I really like the feel of these changes. They sound like they'd be more useful.

Yep. It "floats," in that you need not choose in advance which mystery you're going to use it for.

 

[Deadguy]

That's it exactly. I wanted to keep the trade-off between going focused and going for versatility. The feats used to encourage one; now, since there's no need to encourage the one, they instead encourage the other.

Woohoo! I understood the mind of a games designer!



Should I worry now?

 

[Mouseferatu]

Should I worry now?

Probably. But odds are good it's already too late.

 

[Wraith Form]

Thanks for the input, Ari. I'll be trying an NPC in the very, very near future with your suggested changes. We'll see how much my players think I'm a Rat Basterd DM, to determine how successful your changes were...

 

[Cadfan]

I like the basics of the changes.

I am interpreting the part about supernatural mysteries having the supernatural DC progression as applying not only to apprentice mysteries, but also to fundamentals and initiate mysteries modified with the Favored Mystery feat. With that interpretation, mysteries like Shadow Vision are genuinely good.

I don't like the floating bonus mystery. I don't like it at all. It runs counter to the entire flavor of the class. I'd prefer giving an extra use based on intelligence for all mysteries of that level. I don't think this would create a problem, it effectively doubles the mysteries per day for all apprentice mysteries, and creates a motivation to pursue intelligence scores beyond 19.

I really don't want to change the basic flavor of mysteries known yielding their own uses per day in favor of some sort of floating use like every other caster.

I made a test character with the suggestions, and levelled it up a few times. Here's what I found.

At low levels, I spread my mysteries around quite a lot between different paths in order to ensure that I had enough attack mysteries per day. At higher levels when my higher level mysteries were taking over the burden, I began shifting my lower level mysteries so that they completed entire paths, giving me utility spells and bonus feats.

Eyes of Darkness (shadow?) is good for this. At medium levels, Dark Reflections and Veil of Shadow are also nice.

Its a little funny though, that the save progression for your master level mysteries actually ends up with them being weaker than your mysteries cast as supernatural abilities. Path Focus helps a bit with this, although the level 7 mysteries still lag.

I would happily play a character with these changes, with the caveat above that I don't like, and would prefer not to use, the floating mystery use per day.