The State of American Animation

[Chun-tzu]

I said:
The American TV and comic industry has failed for years to attract the young female audience. But large numbers of young females have gotten into anime and manga, like Ranma 1/2, Fruits Basket, Kareshi Kanojo no Jijou ("His and Her Circumstances"), Sailor Moon, and many others. Noir is one of the best action anime shows in recent years, starring two female assassins.

Reanjr said:
You mean like when my little sister's friends all sit around and watch Cartoon Network and Disney all day? Where are you getting this idea from that young girls do not like American TV?

And now I say:
For years, when I was growing up, there were few cartoons for girls. I bet you cane name plenty of cartoon franchises for boys with long histories: Transformers, G.I. Joe, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and so on. What cartoons were there for girls in the 80's? Let's compare: Jem. My Little Pony. She-Ra. Guess what? They weren't that successful. Of course they still watch TV. But the animation industry was heavily skewed towards boys.

The comic industry is far worse. You cannot begin to argue that girls read comics, because any girls who do are the exception, rather than the rule. This is not because they don't like sequential art. Many of them are finding more interesting reading material (for them) in the manga section than the comic section.

 

[mojo1701]

I think anime has covered so many different art styles, genres, and story types that saying "I don't like anime" is like saying "I don't like movies" or "I don't like television" or "I don't like books." All of which is entirely possible.

I highly doubt that. The comparisons, that is. I don't like anime. It's as simple as that. It's not that I don't like what it's about, but more of the production. I REALLY dislike the animation style, as well as the actual design of it. The animation always seems the exact same to me. At least with western-based animation, there's always a variation.

 

[Desdichado]

I think MOST people have seen very little anime, and a very limited selection. I think anime has covered so many different art styles, genres, and story types that saying "I don't like anime" is like saying "I don't like movies" or "I don't like television" or "I don't like books." All of which is entirely possible.

If you have seen a wide variety of critically and/or popularly acclaimed anime, however, and found nothing that you care for, then yes, I am at a loss as to how that can be. The same way I would be in the case of movies, television, etc. If you choose never to watch any anime again, I think "that's a shame" not "you should try this." Frankly, it doesn't bother me if you don't like anime. It DOES bother me if people go around saying "I've seen all this anime, and it's all crap."

In my experience, people who have seen little anime are the people who had no interest in it from the begining (such as my wife, for instance.) She never gave it a fair shake, but by the same token, she doesn't give most sci-fi or fantasy a fair shake either. She already knows she's not likely to like it, and guess what; she's right.

On the other hand, most people of the "geek crowd" who don't like anime, in my experience, have seen quite a bit of it, mostly what's been recommended by their missionary friends who proseletyze it to them incessantly. So, what, they have to see all anime before they can finally decide they don't like it?

I've seen a fair amount of anime, including much of the "highly recommended" stuff. I haven't liked most of it. I have liked some of it, but not more than a good old Hollywood movie, or heck, a good old Hong Kong movie for that matter. I can find a few shows out there that I'm certainly glad I saw, and maybe even one or two that I wouldn't mind owning. But at what point will you concede that I most definitely do separate out anime from "all movies" or "all TV" and that yes, I prefer other forms of visual entertainment?

I think that's the real rub, rather than folks that see one or two things and then decide "all anime is crap." I've never actually met anyone like that. Although there are three (of five) in my gaming group that have given anime a pretty fair shake and just aren't really converts. One of them lived in Japan for a few years and speaks fluent Japanese and is familiar with the culture, and of anyone you'd think he'd be the fan. He's not. He still tries it occasionally too, thinking maybe he'll find something he really likes, but he doesn't. But at least he gets to keep his Japanese fluent.

 

[Mad Mac]

Heh, I can relate to that. Popping in a DVD now and then is probably the only thing keeping my japanese from rusting away entirely. My Kanji skills are crap, though. :\

I can't say that I've ever understood the motivation "anime evangelists" since I grew up knowing my taste in entertainment wasn't typical. I grew up watching cartoons...and never really stopped. I love animation, something my family rags on me about once in a while, but generally accepts. Never felt that everyone else needed to enjoy watching the same things as I did.

 

[Desdichado]

Heh, I can relate to that. Popping in a DVD now and then is probably the only thing keeping my japanese from rusting away entirely. My Kanji skills are crap, though. :\

I know at least two guys who also married Japanese women... although probably for more reasons than simply to keep their language skills sharp.

 

[Chain Lightning]

Something that has been going through my mind as I've been involved in this thread, is the amount of people I know that like or dislike anime. At work, with friends, with family, friends of friends, most range from "I like anime" to "not really into it that much, but I did see some I thought was neat". I just realized that it is only here at EN World that I've found people that actually say they "hate" anime. I mean, not just "ah...I'm not really into that much" ... I mean actually hate it.

Please don't think that I'm against anyone who hates anime, but I just find it odd that the only ones I've met that hate anime to that degree are here on these forums.

......hmmmmm.....okay wait a minute, that's wrong. I did meet/encounter one guy that hated anime. This was back when anime wasn't that popular yet. Best Buy didnt' have a section of it or anything. Heck, there wasn't even a Best Buy at the time. Our city had only one little shop that sold anime. I was in there one day and some guy walked in and started ranting..."Why do you people like this crap? What's the big deal?"

Okay, other than that guy....I've never met anyone that hated anime. Except some of you guys here. But I guess that means I haven't met enough people...heh heh.

I highly doubt that. The comparisons, that is. I don't like anime. It's as simple as that. It's not that I don't like what it's about, but more of the production. I REALLY dislike the animation style, as well as the actual design of it. The animation always seems the exact same to me. At least with western-based animation, there's always a variation.

Odd thing is, I have friends that say all the American style look the same. But they're wrong. Sure, there are camps that you can lump certain styles in with the other, but certainly not ALL of them look the same. The key word is "seems". You used it and said, "The animation always seems the exact same to me". Which I don't doubt. But it isn't. There are different styles in anime.

Its is comments like this that make fans of anime ask, "how much have you seen?" Anyways, the whole thing I believe is attached to the liking and disliking of the subject matter anyways. I used to say all rap music sounded the same. But as time went on, I found it that it wasn't all the same. But the thing that kept me from finding this out was that I didn't like the stuff to begin with. Not liking it means you're not going to invest time to "get to know" it more.

Now, because I say this, don't misunderstand and think that I'm saying you're bad for not being patient and getting to know anime more. Nothing wrong with only dabbling a little and making the decision not to go further. I too have things I've tried only a little and just moved on. Nothing wrong with that. There's only such my time in a day, one can't possibly dedicate time and concentration on fully exploring everything.

But anyways mojo1701, I said all that so you don't think I'm jumping down your throat and yelling "no it isn't!!.....wah wah wah"

But anyways, it isn't. There are many different styles in anime. If I were to put together a set of "art of" books from various selected anime in front of you, you'll probably see it too. "Memories" doesn't look like "Bezerk" which doesn't look like the new cgi "Appleseed" movie which doesn't look like "Vampire Hunter D:Bloodlust" which doesn't look like "FLCL", which doesn't look like "Blood: The Last Vampire" which doesn't look like "Mazinkaiser" which doesn't look like "Spirited Away" which doesn't look like "Yukikaze" which doesn't look like "Demon City Shinjuku".

 

[Desdichado]

I've seen several different styles within anime, but it all looks like anime even so, at least by virtue of the fact that it doesn't look like American animation. I mean, it doesn't really all look the same, but if you don't really like any of the styles, I can see how you'd think that.

I get people telling me that all my music sounds the same, which I figger is just the same phenomena. To me, naturally, it's very varied and unique.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

What I find so funny about the "I like American animation better" is that Japanese animation is really just an outgrowth FROM American animation. Its basically a take on the old Disney and Warner Brothers styles. Sure, its evolved in its own right by now, but you can still see the similarities in a lot of places(a big one being the crazy expressions that drive some people mad).

But I don't care if someone likes anime or not. If you like it, fine, you like it. If you don't, whatever. I've given up on trying to bring people into anime...I've gotten to be a diaglo of anime, subs only and yes I do understand Japanese and no I didn't just learn it to watch them thankyouvermuch. I've found its just easier to accept that not everyone will like what I like, and trying to get everyone to like what I like can just make me seem like those crazy fanboys that many people seem to think all anime fans are.

 

[mojo1701]

Odd thing is, I have friends that say all the American style look the same. But they're wrong. Sure, there are camps that you can lump certain styles in with the other, but certainly not ALL of them look the same. The key word is "seems". You used it and said, "The animation always seems the exact same to me". Which I don't doubt. But it isn't. There are different styles in anime.

Quite possibly.

Its is comments like this that make fans of anime ask, "how much have you seen?" Anyways, the whole thing I believe is attached to the liking and disliking of the subject matter anyways. I used to say all rap music sounded the same. But as time went on, I found it that it wasn't all the same. But the thing that kept me from finding this out was that I didn't like the stuff to begin with. Not liking it means you're not going to invest time to "get to know" it more.

Now, because I say this, don't misunderstand and think that I'm saying you're bad for not being patient and getting to know anime more. Nothing wrong with only dabbling a little and making the decision not to go further. I too have things I've tried only a little and just moved on. Nothing wrong with that. There's only such my time in a day, one can't possibly dedicate time and concentration on fully exploring everything.

Thanks for the understanding.

But anyways mojo1701, I said all that so you don't think I'm jumping down your throat and yelling "no it isn't!!.....wah wah wah"

No, no I don't.

But anyways, it isn't. There are many different styles in anime. If I were to put together a set of "art of" books from various selected anime in front of you, you'll probably see it too. "Memories" doesn't look like "Bezerk" which doesn't look like the new cgi "Appleseed" movie which doesn't look like "Vampire Hunter D:Bloodlust" which doesn't look like "FLCL", which doesn't look like "Blood: The Last Vampire" which doesn't look like "Mazinkaiser" which doesn't look like "Spirited Away" which doesn't look like "Yukikaze" which doesn't look like "Demon City Shinjuku".

Possibly. I haven't had too much exposure to anime, and I don't think that I've seen so little of it. I've got a little brother (only 3 years younger) who likes certain ones, too. Perhaps I might like it, perhaps I might not, but it's the cultural difference, I think, is what I don't like about it, analytically speaking. If, for example, I found a series of comic books that I could go out and change the names, for example, I might find it a bit more appealing. As it stands, though, if I want non-comedy, I turn to live-action, since the emotions are that much more easily expressible. If I want comedy, I want to turn to something that is of the same culture as me, so I'd understand it. Which is why I LOVE Family Guy, Futurama, The Simpsons, South Park et al. Even with comedy, I usually turn to live-action as well, although I haven't been watching anything as religiously as I used to. The one exception to this, is 'Arrested Development.'

 

[Dagger75]

I feel like chiming in. I have seen my share of anime. I know what I like and what I don't. I watched the first 3 DVD's of Beserk, wasn't impressed. I like Record of Lodoss Wars but just can't sit down and watch it when ever I like. I like Ghost in the Shell, love stand alone complex, hated Akira. Robotech and Invid invasion I love, Gundam did nothing for me. Tried watching Trigun, saw the big stupid face with the teardrop, ruined it for me. I don't know why that bugs me but it does. I dislike it on Teen Titans to. Don't get me started on DragoBall Z.

I have also ran into my fair share of people who only take Japanese language classes and culture classes because they want to "understand" anime better. They have that air about them "I know what this really means and you know nothing" attitude.

For American animation, I really don't see why everybody loves Samari Jack. I hate the animation. Same with the Clone War cartoons, watched them all but really hated the animation. It looks childish and cheap. Then again it works on Dexters Lab for me, go figure. Liked Justice League Unlimited, Batman the Animated Series and Batman Beyond.