I think one thing that might hurt the direct-to-DVD animation idea is that when I hear 'Direct to Video' I think: it must be terrible. I think a number of other people might feel the same way but I have no real idea of knowing how prevalent that thought might be.
Its not really. When we think "direct to video" = "terrible" it usually has to do with live action feature movies. Like you go to Blockbuster and see Jason Scott Lee in "Timecop 2". Well, since it wasn't even in the theatre, its probably really bad. That's kinda where that rule usually goes. But I think it doesn't really apply at all to animation. I mean, people are buying the Japanese anime "direct to videos" aren't they? That section of the isle is getting bigger and bigger. Most be something to it eh?
Just having more american animation aimed a teenagers instead of tikes would be an improvement, imo.
I agree. But if we can't get that at the moment, I'll settle for at least kid shows that don't treat the kids like they're stupid.
With regards to the Clone Wars, I think something with the Star Wars name on it will be enough to launch anything into the mainstream. It would be nice to see a good quality, grown up CGI Star Wars cartoon. We know it can look good - see Roughnecks/Starship Troopers, Dan Dare, Beast Wars and the upcoming Captain Scarlet shows. Just look at the movie sequences that accompany most video and PC games these days. All it needs is a few decent scripts and some half decent voice actors.
Ah, and there's the rub. "Decent scripts" A rarity in the animation industry.
Does anyone know how the production costs of such a show would compare to a live action show? Cheaper, obviously, but would it take longer to produce?
It all depends on the show. 2-D usually is cheaper. The more things the CGI artists gotta build in the computer, the more costly it gets. So, if for instance, we're doing a fantasy show where the heroes go into a different dungeon each week, it'll be very costly indeed. But if its like a Sci-fi show where they mostly stay on the same ship and stick to only a few planet types, and fight the same enemies week in week out, its easier. And it does take a bit longer than a normal 2-d show. It depends on the CGI studio and the amount of staff it has. A lot factors.
I might get cheaper. Lot studios are looking to having cgi companies in India do for it cheaper.
Well, honestly, how much of the Japanese animation is "serious?" A lot of it is for kids too, and much of what isn't is either extremely slipshod in it's writing and/or animation, or is the equivalent of over-the-top 90210-ish teenage soap opera. Except sillier. Certainly, it takes itself more seriously than, say, the Simpsons, but you'll have a hard time convincing me that it actually is more serious.
No, not a hard time. An impossible time.
Every time we discuss Anime you pop up and slam it down hard. Where as you don't understand why people like me like it, I don't understand why you don't. Weird huh? But that's okay....its America. Its fun to debate back and forth from opposite view points.
Even in anime, unless you're a raving fanboy, you have to admit that the really good shows are just as exceptional (in terms of standing out from the crowd) as good American animation is.
If we're talking about the amount of times something from Japan stands out from its peers in comparison to the amount of times something American stands out from its peers......then yah, both about equal. But as far as pushing the art form further....I'm sorry, that prize still goes to Japan.
Look, I'm not saying every anime is friggin awesome. I know its not. In fact, I think like...most of it is pretty dull or stupid. But the ones that are good....in my mind, are so much better than anything the American studios have produced lately.
In terms of when should a studio turn to animation; animation ain't cheap. Well, good animation, anyway, ain't cheap. A fully animated Disney feature film, for instance, takes several years with hundreds of people working full time on it, and will end up costing well over $100 million to produce.
Actually, it really doesn't take $100 million to produce. Its just that the Disney feature production system is so flawed, it wastes/bleeds more money that it actually needs to. A lot of the films they made could've been done a lot cheaper if only they ran it smarter. But yes, it is expensive still.
The CGI equivalent is also expensive, but faster, which means relatively less cost. Still, something like Monsters, Inc. or the Final Fantasy movies were hardly cheap.
"Final Fantasy" wasn't cheap because of the way it was managed. That movie was the Spruce Goose ...the Waterworld of cgi movies. But you're right, CGI is expensive. Roughnecks cost more to make than say Jackie Chan adventures. But its not so much more expensive than to not be a viable medium. Under certain limitations (like, proper pre-production time to build models/sets and giving the writers a restriction to not stage stories outside built sets too often) it can be done without costing an arm and a leg.
"Saturday morning cartoon" quality animation can be done cheaper, naturally, but forget about anything like cool CGI effects, or things like that. You can also do cheaper and quicker CGI animation, and there've been a few examples of it out there (the Barbie movies, the Donkey Kong show, etc.) Also, be prepared for a lot of stock and reused footage, or (as in anime) a lot of "slideshow" like effects. But in general, if you've got an effects-heavy action/sci-fi/fantasy type show, you can still make a case that animation could be cheaper.
2-d in my opinion is still a good way to go.
What Chain Lightning didn't mention, is that it's not just the studios; the "suits" he's talking about are actually right on the money and generally in line with the American viewing public in general. Anything sci-fi animated "not for kids" is very much a niche market in America, not mass market. I think there's a prevalent attitude amongst anime fans that if "people would just watch this, they'd love it" kinda a Field of Dreams-ish "If we build it they will come" expectation of the marketplace that just isn't true. Could a really good science fiction American "anime" marketed for adults be a financially successful and viable business proposition? Yes, quite likely. Would such a movie/series/etc. take the world by storm, completely change the American public's opinion on animation and general and spark a revolution in the American entertainment industry? No, probably not.
I totally agree with you here. As the market currently stands, there isn't a huge market for the kind of stuff we geeks here like to see. Some fantasy or sci-fi serious adult animation show. But while not huge at the moment, its does have an audience. Enough of an audience to make good money off of. But that's the problem, why make 'decent' money, when you can spend money to make 'sweet huge amounts' of money? Thus, the "suits" idea of appealing to the as big a demographic as possible. While simultaneously being a smart business decision, it is also a horrible artistic one. One of many areas where art and business clash.
But, here's my prediction. Even though a serious sci-fi or fantasy animation isn't as hugely received now....it has been, it currently is...and will be changing. The anime section in the local stores shows this, the expanded exposure of indie animation shorts on the web also. While Joshua doesn't see the appeal of anime (according to his tastes), many others see it as a "alternative" source of animation. Through anime, you can get what American animation can't provide. Its because of this that anime is getting bigger. This to me proves that the audience is changing.....getting bigger. Each generation of kids grows up differently from the last. The next generation of kids may provide studios with a viable money making audience to actually do the kind of show we're talking about. In the 80's....only geeky guys were into video games. Now, I see teenage girls who are into anime, manga, video games, etc. Even the guys were labeled as the popular jock is into anime and video games. A lot stuff we think is niche geek products only, isn't anymore.
I mean, if we went back in time and told someone that you can make a ton of money if you did a proper "Lord of the Rings" movie...they'd laugh at you. "Fantasy" is too niche, not enough people into that geeky stuff."
Or how about a channel dedicated to just all Sci-Fi? Not enough people into Sci-fi for it to be a money making idea?
The audience is getting bigger. The thing is, its hard to tell whether its ready now.....or a few years from now. But I think the excuse of "not big enough of an audience to do a serious animation show" is going to be outdated.
