The State of ENWorld (too important to go to Meta)

[Piratecat]

I think Steve's handle is actually Ghostwind. Whisperfoot was another gent who worked for WOTC, and I have not seen him around for quite some time.

Yup, Darrin Drader (WotC customer service) is Whisperfoot. He just posted yesterday over in Rules.

I've seen lots of publishers and authors weigh in on threads. They aren't necessarily chatty, but I think many of them scan the General forums for topics that interest them. The example of Monte starting the Phantom Fungus thread yesterday is a good one.

On the internet, people come and go. for every oldtime member who no longer spends time here and I miss, we have newer members who have immediately distinguished themselves and impressed me. Things change, but they stay pretty darn good.

An embarrassingly long time ago I asked Eric what he was going to do with his site once 3e actually launched in August. "Oh," he replied, "it's going to turn into a conversions site, and I'll probably get rid of the message boards because there won't be much left to say."

I'm glad he was wrong.

So what can we do? If you correspond with a publisher, invite them over -- especially if you see specific threads dealing with their products. That's a big help right there.

We agree with RW about the need for the new server. You'll likely see an update announcement from me on this topic within the next two weeks; please wait for that to make server-related comments, so we don't derail this thread. Needless to say, the new equipment should make a world of difference.

 

[Sayburr]

I used to post a lot on these boards and on the boards that proceeded this one, but now that I have found I can not buy every d20 book that is published I concentrate on D&D and Kalamar, so I spend most of my time at Kenzerco.com instead of here.

I still read the front page daily and glance at the forum topics on the right side of the main page (which led me here) but I don't post very much any longer.

I guess my interest in all things d20 has waned to the point where I just don't have anything to contribute to the discussions on the boards any longer. I still donate to ENworld when there is a shout out for funds, but I don't use the boards. I look at the topics on the first page and there is NOTHING I feel like contributing to (well, other than this topic).

So, I think the downturn that you perceive is not a lessening of interest in gaming or even a lessening in the interest in the service that Russ is providing though the news page, but more of a concentration into small areas of the gaming community that can be better served on a publishers own message board area.

I remember when Necromacer Games didn't have their own message board and Clark and crew spent a lot of time here, now they have their own area and have to split their time between here and there. As for me, I love it, because when I want to see what is going on with Necromancer Games, I head over to their message boards whereas I used to have to come here and weed through a multitude of messages just to try and find the info I desired.

So, I personally don't think there is anything ENworld can do to bring back the "old feel" of when every publisher and every fan spent hours upon hours here because while this is a great centralized base for news and knowledge, it is not great for specific information any longer. Fans are better served at a publisher's owned message area. Often I will find out about a product here and then go to the publisher's website and the publisher's message boards to find out more.

 

[Henry]

Rangerwickett, Think about this for a second: If d20 Publishers were re-merged back into General, the ONLY threads that would have more than 5 replies would be threads that immediately incited heated discussions or flames, because it's easier to retaliate to an attack than to offer new creative suggestions. As it is now, I've seen threads asking for help with two or three replies that drop to the middle of page two inside of two hours. By the end of the day they are either at the bottom of page two, or on page three, which is the REAL graveyard slot. That's not that bad, but add in press releases, and page two will become Page Six.

I miss some cameraderie, and DEFINTELY some posters (I go to Nutkinland to catch up every now and again, and "see" old "faces" - or would that be "Glimpse familiar Screen names?), but there's still lots going on, and plenty of people to talk to. And as Russ said, there are a LOT of indie publishers hanging around the d20 system forums.

Just some thoughts on the subject.

 

[thundershot]

I always check "General", "d20 & OGL Games", and "Publishers Forum". That's it... The one really annoying thing for me is that even though I'm on at least a couple times a day, if I spend too long on a topic, suddenly all of the other topics are marked as read, and I can't remember where I left off, and have to dig.

I too think the publishers having their own boards accounts for some of the problem, but there's not much you can do about that. It'd be nice if they all could work together and conglomerate into one huge community... ah, yes, those were the days....



Chris

 

[Tortoise]

Do you remember the days when publishers used to hang out in the general forum, pimp their books, and chat about their games all the time? Now they mostly stick to the Publishers forum, just posting press releases.

I was looking back at a thread I posted two years ago, and there were about 80 replies over the course of a few days. A similar topic was posted by someone recently, and it got very few replies.

Where is everybody? I miss a lot of the folks we used to have here, and it seems like there's just not as much activity on the boards anymore. Is it because the server keeps going down (and for God's sake guys, can we please just get the new server? Russ, I'll send you $300 if it'll make things go faster, and I'm nearly broke)? Is it because gaming is not on people's minds as much nowadays (which makes no sense, because the boards were still plugging along fine a year after September 11). Am I just reading too much into a slump period?

I just don't see the same fullness of a community that used to be on these boards. Publishers used to love hanging out with everyday gamers, and people seemed to hang on every announcement about something cool from a d20 publisher. Now, maybe people are just more conservative than before, more wary about buying potentially-bad books, but about the only things I see discussed regularly are WotC books. And I know that third-party publishers are trying their damnedest to put out exceptional products, because the market is so hard. I just don't see people getting excited over them anymore.

I suggest we try this: get rid of the D20 Publishers forum as a place of advertisement. Keep it as a place for publishers to discuss the art of publishing, but put advertisements back in General. Encourage them.

We've still got all the same gamers from before -- discussions of games are still great, rules disputes and house rules and storyhours are strong as always -- but to me it feels like we've lost some of the reason why ENWorld reached its height, the ability for normal gamers to talk to publishers, see how they are cool people too, and get to know each other better. I know it's a lot easier for me to buy a book from Mystic Eye because I know Doug Herring and like him, even if we had a few mild arguments.

I want more people to come here. The more friends we have here, the better the community. Think of all the old names you remember, and wonder where they've gone.

Friends, I'm interested to hear how you feel about this.

I happen to agree, it does seem like many (not all) of the great and open discussions of upcoming products being directly talked about with the publishers has dwindled.

I too would like to see the discussion of products brought fully back into the general area with direct contact from publishers. The Publishers forum feels too impersonal and the rare occasion when I go there it looks like nothing more than a graveyard for press releases.

Part of the fun of Eric Noah's site and earlier En World was the energy created by discussion of the pending arrivals of new things and the ideas and discussions that spun off from those threads.

Of course posting is up over-all and while there is plenty here for everyone to enjoy, there seems to be a certain energy missing or if not missing, at least somewhat diminished.

Perhaps I'm just suffering a bit of spring fever with the nice weather returning, but the topic is a worthy one to discuss.

 

[kenjib]

Hi RangerWickett,

I'm not very active here much these days and I used to be maybe some 8 months or so back. Mostly it was just a shift of interest. I'm interested more in non-d20 games these days and I spend a little bit of time at the Forge ( www.indie-rpgs.com ), but mostly just lurking. The d20 stuff that keeps coming out just isn't all that interesting to me as I look for different things out of an rpg than d20 tends to focus on. Even from the start I was always trying to think of ways to modify d20 to get it to do what I wanted instead of being able to use it as it is. Of course, d20 could be used in different ways to pursue different interests but I get the sense that there is kind of a d20 "culture" among publishers such that really bold stuff taking a very different direction just hasn't really happened yet (nor do I think there's really a need for it either).

However, for every person like me who has mostly or wholy drifted away, it seems like there have been two that have come since.

EDIT: P.S. The things that I would miss most were I still visiting frequently were the long threads initiated by mmadsen and SHARK from time to time.

 

[Crothian]

We don't need the publishers to pimp their own stuff, we need the fans to do it for them.

 

[Treebore]

I hang out at Necromancer, some at Kenzerco, and the rest of the time here. The D20 Publishers forum is still a good place to engage the publishers. If you say something there that elicits/warrants a response you will get one. Troll Lord Games, Necromancer, Goodman, et al still answer specific questions about their products. You want them to talk to you go there and ask them questions.

When you have only 3 or 4 posters asking the publishers questions they don't have much to answer.

As for the general posting, I am more in the I have already beat that thread idea to death, don't want to do it again. So i post a lot less than I used to.

 

[BigFreekinGoblinoid]

We don't need the publishers to pimp their own stuff, we need the fans to do it for them.

As researching and discussing new/upcoming products is my primary reason for being an ENWorld regular, I would say that I have noticed SOME decline in the amount of publisher/designer chatter here. But not much.

I think we DO need publishers to pimp their own stuff. Sure they are biased, but they are informed! The idea of specific publisher forums could be a bad one, however. For instance, I beleive that EN publishing product discussions get LOST in their own forum with no anchor to the publishing forum. They should just be discussed and announced there like any other publisher.

Formal Staff/Fan reviews are just not enough for me to learn about products, especially with something like 90% of all products in the ENWorld review database recieving a 3 or a 4 rating. OK, every product has some merit, I get it - But I enjoy the CRITICAL ( even if somethimes misinformed ) discussion that really leads to anlayzing a products utlity.

 

[Desdichado]

The Culture - This one is going to get me beaten down, I'm sure. I know my opinions aren't always popular ones, but the culture around here seems to foster being argumentative rather than holding civil, intelligent conversations. It brings it out in myself too, so I'm not claiming innocense here. It's not everyone, of course, but it seems like differing opinions are immediately followed by antagonistic remarks rather than friendly debate. I can see why publishers would want to stay out of those kind of discussions, as it only serves to tarnish their names.

Now that I don't agree with. ENWorld is one of the friendlier places on the 'net, and I can always count on a good, stimulating and interesting discussion on something near and dear to my heart over here, as long as d20 and gaming in general stay near and dear to my heart. It's extremely rare for a discussion to turn into a bitter, or argumentative type of discussion here, especially compared to other places.