The State of Our Hobby

[Celebrim]

I don't play that edition.

The first edition was the one true edition. All editions afterwards have been pale imitations of the original.

And don't get me started on the abomination that was '80's edition'. The answer to half the questions are 'Ronald Reagan', 'Bull Durham', and 'the condom'.

 

[hong]

At this point, I totally disagree. The best thing for D&D is for 4E to crash and burn and for Hasbro to close its D&D division. The game needs to return to the garages and basements of hobbyists. D&D is about the imagination, and the worst enemy of the human imagination is a Marketing Department. In my opinion, D&D was at its best when its publisher was the least corporate (OD&D 1974), and at its worst now that the publisher is at its most corporate.

Personally, I think digital watches are a pretty neat idea.

 

[Starman]

Personally, I think digital watches are a pretty neat idea.

No, they're not. They will never have the elegance or accuracy of a good sundial.

Now, will somebody move that cloud for me?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

If 3.X continues on as a viable product- either at the hands of WotC or 3rd party publishers- it may indeed erode the base of 4Ed and split the base of D&D popularity. I don't fear that.

D&D ≠ the gaming hobby...THANK GOD!

I love D&D- it was my first RPG, and I'm still playing it some 30+ years later. However, I play a lot of other systems, and even prefer some (like HERO) to it.

I don't like everything WotC's doing with 4Ed, but there are things about the new edition that I definitely do like. I'm not sure I'll ever say that I like 4Ed as my D&D edition of choice, but I may find it to be a good game in its own right. That said, I may never play a single session of it- whether I do or not depends upon how the people I game with feel about it.

In all honesty, 3.X is a good enough game that it may even continue to outshine 4Ed in popularity. Only time will tell. But even if it does, that's not a disaster.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Personally, I don't see the "splintering" as a bad thing. If "the industry" gets split up into multiple segments, each smaller, but each sustainable (and probably with plenty of "cross-pollenization" going on), then I don't see the problem at all. I don't care if it isn't a unified market. The market becomes what the market wants. And apparently, the market wants options.

The market also becomes what the market can support. People always talk about wanting to expand the hobby and grow the market. I can understand companies wanting to do that, but as a gamer/consumer, I'm unconcerned. I don't fear a smaller, more hobbyist market with lower production values, et cetera; many of my favorite RPG products came out of that kind of environment. I don't fear a smaller player base, either; I've always tended to make friends into gamers, rather than starting with gamers and making them into friends (not a hard-and-fast rule, of course, just a tendency). I've been playing D&D for several decades; I'll still be playing it years from now, too, no matter what happens to "the market" and "the hobby."

I know I'm probably in the minority, feeling this way (and certainly in the minority around here). I'm already out of the mainstream, no longer running the current edition du jour, and consequently blissfully unconcerned with the latest and shiniest books. I'm mostly doing my own thing, these days, and having a blast. I don't see myself buying much D&D material, for any edition or variant, in the near future.

 

[Stalker0]

Personally I don't think the splintering will be that bad.

When 3.5 came out, people HOWLED and complained and said they would never buy the new books, they would never move over, that there would be a huge split in the fanbase. Well guess what, the majority of people converted, 3.5 did just fine, and we all moved on.

I think 4e will be the same way. People will moan and groan, but they'll convert. People will say the books are too expensive, but they'll buy them anyway. People will say they'll never play a game of 4e, until one of their buddies wants to dm it.

Some people will stick with Paizo and its system for a while, but eventually they'll get a look at 4e, here about some friends play it, and give it a try. And then they'll see all the new adventurers and sourcebooks for it...and they'll convert. People love to play iron heroes or arcana evolved. But one day their campaign will end, and they'll look for something new. They'll go to 4e.

4e is coming...it will not be denied.

 

[Kishin]

At this point, I totally disagree. The best thing for D&D is for 4E to crash and burn and for Hasbro to close its D&D division. The game needs to return to the garages and basements of hobbyists. D&D is about the imagination, and the worst enemy of the human imagination is a Marketing Department. In my opinion, D&D was at its best when its publisher was the least corporate (OD&D 1974), and at its worst now that the publisher is at its most corporate.

This is an incredibly unrealistic expectation.

I hate the 'corporate' argument; As a musician, I hear it all the time. Sure, there's a lot of shallow, mass produced corporate garbage in the world, but just because something is corporate/mainstream/whatever does not mean its devoid of value. I'm not so quick as some to impugn the 4E designers' love of the game, especially after hearing them talk.

Unfortunately, D&D will never 'return to the garages and basement of hobbyists'. If 4E dies out, there will be big problems for the entire PnP industry.

 

[Tetsubo]

3E (and 3.5) brought back my desire to play D&D. I see 4E as a fracture within the D&D community. This split will not be good for our hobby.

4E: The Unwanted.

 

[Korgoth]

This is an incredibly unrealistic expectation.

I hate the 'corporate' argument; As a musician, I hear it all the time. Sure, there's a lot of shallow, mass produced corporate garbage in the world, but just because something is corporate/mainstream/whatever does not mean its devoid of value. I'm not so quick as some to impugn the 4E designers' love of the game, especially after hearing them talk.

Unfortunately, D&D will never 'return to the garages and basement of hobbyists'. If 4E dies out, there will be big problems for the entire PnP industry.

It isn't my expectation. More like a fantasy.

But if it did come to pass, why would D&D "never" return to the garages and basements? The only D&D I play is out of print (that is, the editions I choose to play are long out of print; I'd be happy if they were in print, of course). What do the machinations of Hasbro profit me anyway?

As far as the 'corporate argument', well, hate it or not but in this case it's true. D&D (imho, ymmv, blahblahblahedyblah) was at its best in the seventies, and commenced a long march downhill ever since then. It is at the height of its corporate-ness now, and I find the products for it useless or worse. Look, corporations can accomplish some amazing things. Art and literature are not among them. The only time an artist firmly ensconced in the corporate world can produce an unadulterated, un-committeed vision seems to be when he has become so valuable as an asset in his own right that he can tell the corporation(s) to kiss his tokhes.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Sure, there's a lot of shallow, mass produced corporate garbage in the world, but just because something is corporate/mainstream/whatever does not mean its devoid of value.

Agreed 99.9%...ok...100%!

If 4E dies out, there will be big problems for the entire PnP industry.

I don't think so.

IMHO, the RPG hobby has reached a critical mass of popularity, esp. if you include those who play the computerized simulations of RPGs. Even without 4Ed, there will be a large gaming hobby, both pen & paper and online.

...one day their campaign will end, and they'll look for something new. They'll go to 4e.

I don't think so.

Any game has flaws & quirks, and for some, those will be enough to drive them away. There are many people who didn't convert to 2Ed. Ditto 3.X. Some still play their favorite D&D systems, others gravitated to the RPGs of other companies- WoD, Ars Magica, GURPS, HERO, etc.

I, for one, am more ambivalent about the change to 4Ed than any previous D&D edition change, and really, really like 3.5 (its my 3rd favorite system). At this point, I'm not sure I'll change over (even though I've preordered my 4Ed Core books), though its possible I may adopt some of the changes as HRs.

And the guys I currently game with haven't updated to 3.5...that's right- we're still playing 3Ed.

Simply put, for many people, 4Ed will never be D&D.

But perhaps, 5th or 6th or 10th will be...