The terms 'fluff' and 'crunch'

[woodelf]

I'm definitely in the "The rules are not the physics of the world. The rules are to facilitate gameplay" camp - rules facilitate interaction between players and game-universe, they don't define that universe. For one thing I might well use different rule sets for the same game world (for my primary world I've used AD&D, Warhammer Battle, my homebrew STIRPS system, D&D 3e, etc); the physics of the world doesn't change depending on the ruleset, although there can be minor conversion difficulties - eg before 3e, AD&D had no spontaneous casting, whereas Warhammer & STIRPS have point-based casting. Luckily changes in magic in my world are easily explained by the Flux, the variable electromagicomagnetic field surrounding the planet.

IOW, you *did* change your setting when you changed rulesets, even if it's just in one area, and even if you had an element of your setting that allowed it without "breaking" the setting. So, the "physics" changed because you changed rulesets. I don't understand how your example supports your point.

Maybe we're just having a semantic misunderstanding, and we actually agree? Because your description is exactly what i mean when i refer to the rules defining the behavior of the world, at least to some degree.

 

[hong]

IOW, you *did* change your setting when you changed rulesets

It's amazing how many misunderstandings are cleared up when the phrase "for all practical purposes" is inserted in the appropriate spot.


Hong "trust me, I'm a statistician" Ooi

 

[S'mon]

IOW, you *did* change your setting when you changed rulesets, even if it's just in one area, and even if you had an element of your setting that allowed it without "breaking" the setting. So, the "physics" changed because you changed rulesets. I don't understand how your example supports your point.

Maybe we're just having a semantic misunderstanding, and we actually agree? Because your description is exactly what i mean when i refer to the rules defining the behavior of the world, at least to some degree.

Well, the way magic works in a world is inevitably to some extent tied up with the rules, but that's an exception. Physical laws like gravity don't change with the ruleset. Heroes are still heroes whatever the ruleset. I'll use different rulesets for different types of game - eg STIRPS is for swords & sorcery PBEMs, Warhammer Battle for small-scale military campaigns, D&D 3e for dungeon-bashing. The important point is that where the rules do pose a conflict with the physics of the setting I am willing to change the rules to better reflect the setting rather than vice-versa. This mostly comes up with spellcasting and metaphysics, the nature of Outsiders, planar cosmology, spirits and the spirit-world.

 

[S'mon]

Also, game data like Levels & Classes or hit points do not have an independent Aristotelean existence within the universe. Again the inevitable exception is spell level with more powerful spellcasters able to use higher-level spells, although different spellcasters may have different understandings of the concept. Some NPCs IMC, especially powerful spellcasters, are impossible to model accurately strictly using the D&D RAW without major changes, so I approximate a rough class & level for them. In a case where a player wanted to play a particular type of spellcaster (a Beskarni Forest Witch) under 3e rules we had to develop a whole new class & systems, based off the Druid but ending up very different, and while it worked for that PC it would need to be changed again for other less Druidical Forest Witch NPCs.

 

[hong]

Also, game data like Levels & Classes or hit points do not have an independent Aristotelean existence within the universe. Again the inevitable exception is spell level with more powerful spellcasters able to use higher-level spells, although different spellcasters may have different understandings of the concept. Some NPCs IMC, especially powerful spellcasters, are impossible to model accurately strictly using the D&D RAW without major changes, so I approximate a rough class & level for them. In a case where a player wanted to play a particular type of spellcaster (a Beskarni Forest Witch) under 3e rules we had to develop a whole new class & systems, based off the Druid but ending up very different, and while it worked for that PC it would need to be changed again for other less Druidical Forest Witch NPCs.

Ha! I said exactly what you did, but with fewer syllables.

FLAWLESS VICTORY.

 

[tetsujin28]

So, criticism accepted, but correction rejected.

"Octopuses" being perfectly acceptable. "Octopi" simply came about because people figure everything's Latin, and it's not even really correct, then: a strict Latin translation would be "octopedes" (pes being a funny word). And weirdly, I don't think I've ever come across any form of the word in Latin. I remember mentions of cuttlefish, but not octopodes. Which, given the Roman fascination with food, is a bit odd.

Anyways, back to our regularly scheduled discussion

 

[hong]

Octopae, ffs ppl.

 

[S'mon]

Ha! I said exactly what you did, but with fewer syllables.

FLAWLESS VICTORY.

Sorry Hong, the idea you were actually _agreeing with me_ was too much for my little brain to handle.

 

[tetsujin28]

Octopae, ffs ppl.

Can't be. It's masculine. I do see some people writing it that way, though. Must be an attempt to get the Latin pronunciation of "octo-pie".

Unless, of course, it conjugates like ninjae

 

[fanboy2000]

IOW, you *did* change your setting when you changed rulesets, even if it's just in one area, and even if you had an element of your setting that allowed it without "breaking" the setting. So, the "physics" changed because you changed rulesets. I don't understand how your example supports your point.

Wow. I am truly in awe. You took something that was clearly labled as an exception and made it sound like a rule.

I mean did you contiously decide to ignore the phrase "although there can be minor conversion difficulties?" The words although and minor are key. They label the example that follows as an exception to his experance and perceptions. See, sometimes people hold and opinion on a subject that dosen't fit all posible circumstances, so they acknowledge exceptions to otherwise standard opinions. Exceptions are quite common in real life. In fact, it is so rare that one rule holds true in all circumstances, exceptions are necessary in order to maintain a sane mind.