The Terrible Trio

[Infiniti2000]

Next, remember, Divine Metamagic has the original feat as a prereq. So you need an extra feat in there.

It already is: Irresistable Spell. What's missing is the clarification of Divine Metamagic (Irresistable Spell).

The spell-penetrating spell name is Assay Resistance from Complete Arcane. A broken spell IMO.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Just how effectively does Assay Resistance smash through Spell Resistance?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Just how effectively does Assay Resistance smash through Spell Resistance?

brehobit mentioned it: +10. No save or SR. Compare that with Spell Penetration.

 

[Crothian]

Irresistible Spell (removes save, +4 to spell level)

You are using the old and outdated version of this feat. The current version has a caster level and 2 feats as a prerequiste and just makes the DC +10. It still takes a spell slot 4 levels higher.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I'll take the old version.

Ok then, we have the Septet Sensational (I'll call it that ...)

Divine Metamagic (original version, or new version with Southern Caster)
Irresistible Spell (original version)
Spell Penetration/Greater Spell Penetration (original versions)
Reach Spell
Chain Spell
Quicken Spell (original version, not a Swift Action)
Array Resistance (the spell)

With this combination, the wizard/cleric can smash through any defense, and crush the strongest opponents.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Assume for a second that the DM is allowing any feats in your game. Any, including the original feats from 3.0, unerrated.
Assume your character is a fighter (any type, PrC, or fighter/other class combination, as long as he is not a spellcaster - cleric, wizard, bard, or otherwise.)
Assume the party wizard is taking the feats above. Or, if not exactly the above, something equally godawfully powerful.

Now, you know that your DM is probably going to be throwing spellcasting opponents at you, who also have access to these original, unerrated feats and feat combinations. In other words, some real bad dude wizards and clerics are coming your way.
And you're playing a fighter. (Or, a fighter/rogue. Or mostly a rogue. Or something else, but not a spellcaster.)

What feats would YOU take, to beef up your non-spellcasting character, in this scenario?
You can take any feats you want, including original and unerrated feats.
You can use UA to gain drawbacks and 2 extra feats if you want.

How would you build a fighter, fighter/rogue, or rogue, to compete against the magic-gone-wild scenario above? How would you put these outrageous clerics and wizards in their place, and show them that fighters and rogues still rule, when it comes down to push comes to shove?

(No infinity engines, please!)

 

[DM_Matt]

Making smackdown characters with no source restrictions isn't really as fun, challenging, or useful as it was at the beginning of 3e. There is enough material out there such that you can do almost any crazy thing if you look hard enough. Your trio relies on ignoring errata, using non-wotc material, and mixing setting-specific and even sub-setting-specific abilities. At that point these builds lose their utility in just about any real campaign. It gets to the point where you might as well just make stuff up rather than spending enormous amounts of time finding and possibly misusing the worst-made abilities that anyone managed to publish somewhere somehow.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Making smackdown characters with no source restrictions isn't really as fun, challenging, or useful as it was at the beginning of 3e. There is enough material out there such that you can do almost any crazy thing if you look hard enough. Your trio relies on ignoring errata, using non-wotc material, and mixing setting-specific and even sub-setting-specific abilities. At that point these builds lose their utility in just about any real campaign. It gets to the point where you might as well just make stuff up rather than spending enormous amounts of time finding and possibly misusing the worst-made abilities that anyone managed to publish somewhere somehow.

You may be right, from your perspective, but my perspective on the matter is different.

I consider Kalamar to be legitimate source material. It has the D&D logo on it, and that is good enough for me.
I also consider FR to be legit. And the Complete Series seems legit enough to me.
I reserve the right to ignore errata. I am not bound to using the latest version of the rules.
And yes, I *would* use these abilities in my game. I *would* throw them at my players. My NPCs would have them. And, the players would have access to them as well.

Now, back to the question I posed ...

 

[Infiniti2000]

(No infinity engines, please!)

How about an Infiniti engine instead?

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

How about an Infiniti engine instead?

LOL.