The Terrible Trio

[Alzrius]

You are using the old and outdated version of this feat. The current version has a caster level and 2 feats as a prerequiste and just makes the DC +10. It still takes a spell slot 4 levels higher.

Crothian, where is the new version of this feat? I have the 3.5 update file to the Player's Guide, and it lists no such revision.

 

[Legildur]

I reserve the right to ignore errata.

That makes it kind of tough to respect your position when they are the rules - this is a rules forum afterall. Using pre-errata rules to justify your position when you know that the errata exists means that you are not applying the RAW. It's not like you are choosing between 3.0 and 3.5, you are using a rule that does not exist. And that's fine, and my group still uses the old Wildshape/Polymorph rules because of existing characters, but I think that makes it a 'place of residential dwelling' rule.

 

[WarlockLord]

Assume for a second that the DM is allowing any feats in your game. Any, including the original feats from 3.0, unerrated.
Assume your character is a fighter (any type, PrC, or fighter/other class combination, as long as he is not a spellcaster - cleric, wizard, bard, or otherwise.)
Assume the party wizard is taking the feats above. Or, if not exactly the above, something equally godawfully powerful.

Now, you know that your DM is probably going to be throwing spellcasting opponents at you, who also have access to these original, unerrated feats and feat combinations. In other words, some real bad dude wizards and clerics are coming your way.
And you're playing a fighter. (Or, a fighter/rogue. Or mostly a rogue. Or something else, but not a spellcaster.)

What feats would YOU take, to beef up your non-spellcasting character, in this scenario?
You can take any feats you want, including original and unerrated feats.
You can use UA to gain drawbacks and 2 extra feats if you want.

How would you build a fighter, fighter/rogue, or rogue, to compete against the magic-gone-wild scenario above? How would you put these outrageous clerics and wizards in their place, and show them that fighters and rogues still rule, when it comes down to push comes to shove?

(No infinity engines, please!)

Drow warrior, every feat, magic item, whatever to increase SR.

 

[Deset Gled]

Assume for a second that the DM is allowing any feats in your game. Any, including the original feats from 3.0, unerrated.

Unerrataed source material from all sources, including 3.0? I consider this to be an academic excercize that has absolutely no bearing on an actual game, but here we go...

Tactic 1:
There was a weapon (I forget which one, and IDHTBRIFOM) in the 3.0 Oriental Adventures that was printed with a crit range of 19-30/x2. Because of the way Keen and Improved Crit work, applying one of those to this weapon technically makes your crit range 7-30/x2. By 3.0 rules, you could stack Keen and Improved Crit to make absolutley every attack a critical threat. Combine this with the original vorpal (works on any critical , not just a natural 20), and cut the head off of everything.

Tactic 2:
Use the unmodified Quicker than the Eye feat, which grants you an extra standard action whenever you threaten an opponent that is denied its dex bonus to AC. Find a kobold, cut out its eyes (since blinded creatures are denied their dex bonus) and stick it in your backpack. Presto! Continuous 3.0 Haste that even works in an antimagic field.

 

[Rhun]

Next, remember, Divine Metamagic has the original feat as a prereq. So you need an extra feat in there.

Is this true? Is this errata'd somewhere? Because in Complete Divine the only prereq is the ability to turn undead. The way I read the feat is you simply take the Divine Metamagic in place of each Metamagic feat...so, you get Divine Metamagic: Empower and Divine Metamagic: Quicken, for example.

If you do require the orignal feat, that definitely cuts down on my opinion that this feat is overpowered.

 

[Deset Gled]

Is this true? Is this errata'd somewhere?

...

If you do require the orignal feat, that definitely cuts down on my opinion that this feat is overpowered.

Yes, it was errata'ed. See here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a

The errata was a step in the right direction, but they really (really really) needed to include the restriction that you cannot use Divine Metamagic to cast a spell that would be an effective spell level that is higher than you can normally cast.

 

[Rhun]

Yes, it was errata'ed. See here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a

The errata was a step in the right direction, but they really (really really) needed to include the restriction that you cannot use Divine Metamagic to cast a spell that would be an effective spell level that is higher than you can normally cast.

Thanks for that. I don't pay regular attention to the errata, so that is nice to have.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Unerrataed source material from all sources, including 3.0? I consider this to be an academic excercize that has absolutely no bearing on an actual game, but here we go...

Tactic 1:
There was a weapon (I forget which one, and IDHTBRIFOM) in the 3.0 Oriental Adventures that was printed with a crit range of 19-30/x2. Because of the way Keen and Improved Crit work, applying one of those to this weapon technically makes your crit range 7-30/x2. By 3.0 rules, you could stack Keen and Improved Crit to make absolutley every attack a critical threat. Combine this with the original vorpal (works on any critical , not just a natural 20), and cut the head off of everything.

I always felt that Improved Critical and Keen Weapons should stack, but I never realized they actually *did* stack in 3.0.
In such a case, a weapon that Threatened a Critical on a 19-20 would Threaten on a 17-20 with Improved Critical, and 13-20 if it was also Keen, correct?

But you are saying you could, in 3.0, make every attack threaten a critical? (that is, critical on a 1-20.) How so? How did you do that?

I also approve of the original (3.0?) vorpal concept, and think I'll stick with it. Vorpal weapons are supposed to be terribly powerful.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Reach Spell, or some other way to make your touch spells non-touch, so you can then chain them.

Spectral Hand is a nice spell for this

 

[RigaMortus2]

I always felt that Improved Critical and Keen Weapons should stack, but I never realized they actually *did* stack in 3.0.
In such a case, a weapon that Threatened a Critical on a 19-20 would Threaten on a 17-20 with Improved Critical, and 13-20 if it was also Keen, correct?

But you are saying you could, in 3.0, make every attack threaten a critical? (that is, critical on a 1-20.) How so? How did you do that?

You aren't reading what he wrote. The threat range of the weapon was 19-30 NOT 19-20. This of course is a typo, but since we are ignoring errata, the 19-30 threat range stands. 19 is "12 spaces" away from 30. So when you apply Improved Critical, it doubles the threat range. 19 - 12 (spaces away from 30) = 7. So the new threat range is 7-30. And since Keen stacks, that is another "12 spaces" away, which technically would get you a threat range of negative 5 - 30. So basically, when you roll the d20 to make your attack, any "natural roll" of a -5 to 30 would threaten.