The Terrible Trio

[Deset Gled]

The threat range of the weapon was 19-30 NOT 19-20.

Quite right.

Upon checking the book, the weapon is the Ninja-to. Actually, I was also incorrect about the threat range being 19-30. It is actually 19-29. This means that with only Keen, the weapon would crit on a roll of 8 or above. The ridiculousness still stands.

 

[the Jester]

The way to really max out a 3.0 threat range without using typos is to have a nimblewright weapon master.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I always felt that Improved Critical and Keen Weapons should stack, but I never realized they actually *did* stack in 3.0.
In such a case, a weapon that Threatened a Critical on a 19-20 would Threaten on a 17-20 with Improved Critical, and 13-20 if it was also Keen, correct?

15-20.

Improved Crit improves the threat range by the original range, and so does Keen... so the original range of 2 (19-20) increases by 2 (17-20) and another 2 (15-20). Remember, by D&D maths, n x 2 x 2 = n x 3, not n x 4.

-Hyp.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Southern Caster is from Shining South.

It is actually called Southern Magician and is actually in Races of Faerun. I believe that is 3.0 (if it matters).

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Ok, I think a *courteous* reply is due, to all the posts above concerning the relevancy of specific rules.

Do any of you remember Star Fleet Battles?
This was my favorite tactical game of all, and it most certainly had a lot of rules (a thousand pages or more) and a LOT of errata (SFB was infamous for it's errata.)
In *that* game, *I* considered that the latest rules took precedence. The Pocket Edition gave way to the Designers Edition, then that gave way to the Commander's Edition, then that gave way to the Captain's Edition (also known as the Doomsday Edition), and any errata to the Captain's Edition took precedence.

But that was Star Fleet Battles, and that was a strictly tactical/strategic game.
I do not think of Dungeons and Dragons in that way. I think of Dungeons and Dragons as a 'pick and choose' game.

If a feat published in 3.0 is Rules Set A, republished in 3.5 is Rules Set B, republished in 2 other 3.5 books is Rules Sets C and D, errated three times is Rules Sets E, F, and G, then it is a matter of 'picking and choosing' between A, B, C, D, E, F, and G. (which is a king-sized headache for me the DM, of course.)
A *typo*, such as 19-30, is irrelevant. It is an obvious mistake, and does not count as any kind of ruleset.

Now, the *problem* is that I, the DM, do not know what all the rulessets are (A through G above, or A through ZZZ) because I do not have all the books. Nor does anyone else, typically.
What to do?

The obvious answer, which most seem to take, is to allow only those Rulesets which the DM has, making exceptions on a case by case basis. But I feel this is profoundly unfair to my players.
Why is that?

The game is imaginary, but real life money is scarce and hard won. And it takes real life money to buy books.
If a player shells out $30 for the Kingdoms of Kalamar Player's Handbook, that is $30 of his money gone. If he shells out $100 more for several of the Complete Books, that is $100 more gone.
If I now say to that player that he cannot use the information in those books, he has wasted his $130. At least, he has wasted it in my game, no?

I have given him (or her) a serious disincentive to buy WOTC products. Because there is no point in buying a product that cannot be used.
Now, you will say: but he or she can use it in someone else's game. Fair enough ... *maybe* he will be able to, and maybe not. With the current mentality out there, I would daresay it is more likely *not.*

On another point I consider important, tactics and strategy within Dungeons and Dragons are based upon assumptions about the rules. Players spend a great deal of time plotting tactics and strategy, then basing roleplaying off of it.
But now players must face multiple rulessets, and they cannot rely on their rulesset being used. They have nothing upon which to base their tactics and strategy, if they cannot count upon the rules. It is hard to plan and plot if the rules carpet is being jerked out from underneath your feet constantly. It makes it hard to roleplay as well.

Since 3.0 and 3.5 are not compatible (for example, one has Partial Actions and one does not) I as DM cannot fully assuage this situation.
However, I can allow as many rules sets as possible, to give the players the greatest range of options possible. In this way, I can try to put as stable a rug under them as possible, and simultaneously reward them for spending their hard-earned money on D&D products.

The Terrible Trio is a direct result of such thinking. And you see drastically overpowered wizards, right? Then add in those fighter subsets, and suddenly a vorpal weapon is monstrous, right?
But inevitably, with the wealth of rules and possibilities offered in 3rd edition, such things are going to happen.
My job, as DM, is to allow such possibilities, then counter them with equally terrible adversary. What I call a balance of imbalances.

For example, a wizard/cleric may use Divine Metamagic and use up all his turning attempts throwing autokill spells. But what happens then, when his turning attempts are used up and a group of spectres shows up?
A fighter with a vorpal weapon is dangerous, until someone disarms him. And then picks up the vorpal weapon to use on HIM.
Autokill spells and vorpal weapons are useless against Lidda the Rogue in any case. She'll just hide, then Sneak Attack ... and the wizard/cleric and/or fighter above will just simply be dead.

I would think that, In Character, wizard colleges, clerical organizations, fighter schools, bardic colleges, and other groups would arm their people with the best feats, skills, PrC access, and the like possible. For them, In Character, it is a matter of sheer survival. If they don't pull out all the stops and use every possibility to their advantage, their opponents WILL (and, importantly, in 3rd Edition their opponents can. Those orcs in the mountains could all become Frenzied Berserkers, for example (shudders.))

That is a partial take on my philosophical stance here, trying to be brief about it.

Edena_of_Neith

 

[RigaMortus2]

Well, in all fairness (to you, your players, and those on the message board here trying to give you advice on your spell combination), there has to be some sort of consistancy with the rules you use. Otherwise when you come here and post and ask for advice on a spell combo, we have no idea what rules you are imploying.

 

[monboesen]

My job, as DM, is to allow such possibilities, then counter them with equally terrible adversary. What I call a balance of imbalances.

I consider my job, as a DM, to include weeding such IMO broken combinations out by disallowing them. That goes both for PC's and NPC's.

I see absolutely no reason to allow something that 99 out of 100 players would choose everytime due to its relative power. The end result can only be a shallower game of identical character builds.

 

[Infiniti2000]

My job, as DM, is to allow such possibilities, then counter them with equally terrible adversary.

I infer from this statement that you find it to be your job to take the 2 hours to plan an encounter that will assuredly lead to a TPK to wipe out possibly years worth of character building from the players. That doesn't seem to me to be a good concept. It ends up being a never ending war of escalation, oneupmanship, and adversarial DM vs. Players style of playing. The DMG advises against this, doesn't it?

 

[Pazu]

It is actually called Southern Magician and is actually in Races of Faerun. I believe that is 3.0 (if it matters).

Out of curiosity, can someone post how this feat works exactly?

 

[Dracorat]

This is a closet case of munchkinism.

If you'll direct your attention to display left, you'll see our most adored addition to the zoo. The munchkin. Be careful not to make any offensive moves however as you might provoke it and it will come through the glass and hurt you.

But it's not possible to move through glass without breaking it.

He ignored that rule. It didn't suit his likings. The moment he realizes the glass gives him a tactical advantage, he will give it up. Please, no provoking movements.