The thing I miss most from AD&D is...

[Jhaelen]

I miss the plateau effect of negative advancement. Where you got your character's up to between 10th and 15th level and simply remained there because you were constantly loosing levels vs undead or resurrection or what have you.

Seriously? I can't think of anything I hated more about AD&D.

I'll join the choir lamenting the lack of spare time to play several times a week. Apart from that I don't miss anything. The changes from one edition to the next so far matched my changing preferences.

 

[WayneLigon]

...experience points for treasure gained.

I understand where the XP systems of 3e and 4e are coming from and, mostly, I think they achieve their goal. However, I feel that there is a unifying feature for XP=GP that is sometime sorely missed.

Interesting. Never once in all the 13-something years of OD&D/1E gaming I did, did I ever even meet a GM who used this rule.

 

[RabidBob]

The thing I miss most from AD&D is...

Oh god, nothing at all; so many arbitrary and nonsensical rules.

Actually, that's not true. Well, it is about the rules, but it's not about the fun. The "go into a dungeon beat some bad guys up, nick their stuff" spirit seemed to be lost when we moved away from D&D and picked up more "realistic" games. In our striving for more and more realism in role playing we quickly lost sight of the simple fun that the old D&D modules provided. There's not ever been anything quite like Temple of Elemental Evil, Palace of the Silver Princess, Keep on the Borderlands et al, at least not in my experience, although that could be nostalgia talking.

 

[Obryn]

Interesting. Never once in all the 13-something years of OD&D/1E gaming I did, did I ever even meet a GM who used this rule.

Well, I know I never used to use xp for gp. I do now, though, once it was explained to me.

You see, I'd been thinking in simulation terms, even back in my 1e days before I knew what that meant, and I dismissed the rule. I mean, getting extra cash does not make you better at swinging a sword. It is nonsensical, and I saw that.

In fact, I should have been looking it as an intensely gamist rule which sets up a reward system to encourage a certain style of play. There's no logical world-reason to give xp for gp, but there's every reason when you want the game to reward those who seek to attain wealth with minimal risk. It's not that it makes any kind of world-sense - it's that it encourages gameplay that, for 1e, is deemed ideal. And I love it for that, which is why I use it in my 1e game now.

-O

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Well, I know I never used to use xp for gp. I do now, though, once it was explained to me.

You see, I'd been thinking in simulation terms, even back in my 1e days before I knew what that meant, and I dismissed the rule. I mean, getting extra cash does not make you better at swinging a sword. It is nonsensical, and I saw that.

In fact, I should have been looking it as an intensely gamist rule which sets up a reward system to encourage a certain style of play. There's no logical world-reason to give xp for gp, but there's every reason when you want the game to reward those who seek to attain wealth with minimal risk. It's not that it makes any kind of world-sense - it's that it encourages gameplay that, for 1e, is deemed ideal. And I love it for that, which is why I use it in my 1e game now.

-O

I am just contemplating how to bring this into D&D 4 or D&D 3.

How about using something like a quest? If you earn money worth an amount of GP equal to your level, you get XP as if you had competed a major quest of your level.

 

[Obryn]

I am just contemplating how to bring this into D&D 4 or D&D 3.

How about using something like a quest? If you earn money worth an amount of GP equal to your level, you get XP as if you had competed a major quest of your level.

I think the best solutions are...

(1) Remove all monster XP, and only give quest XP, but give a LOT of quest XP.

(2) Remove all XP calculations and just give session XP with bonuses for extremely difficult sessions, for handling obstacles in a cunning matter, and other stuff.

I don't think there's a good way to import a gp=xp system directly into 3e or 4e, because the scales are so wildly different. You'd need either a full revision of the XP tables, or else a full revision of monster xp values. Ad-hoc'ing it is probably the best approximation, IMO.

-O

 

[CPT PLAYDOH]

Have the PCs buy with gold their level progression at training grounds or something. Might&Magic world of Xeen used this idea.

Melf was always scrounging for gold to pay for high costs of training. The fighter training was high, but not horrible. However the magic-user costs were crippling. Training fee from the higher level MU, spell research, spellbook construction costs, buying spells from your mentor- if he was willing to sell any... And if you wanted to have travelling spell books then the costs were 10x normal. So this provided plenty of motivation to seek out treasure while adventuring. Plus as a split class I had to halve all experience points anyway- so progression was not too quick.

The gold for XP can be limited in several ways. The treasure has to transported out of the dungeon- or whatever. You can only carry so much. If you are too generous and characters gain levels too quickly- a run in with a vampire or other nasty level drain is a good solution.

A good DM makes the rules work for their campaign and does not let rules dictate the game. Guess I am a conservative gamer in that regard...

 

[Obryn]

A good DM makes the rules work for their campaign and does not let rules dictate the game. Guess I am a conservative gamer in that regard...

This is the best advice this thread.

-O

 

[xechnao]

snip

Adventurers are armed groups, brought together to face monsters and bandits in their perilous quests. Their tactics are highly sophisticated and need training so they can master the necessary team work. But when they face actual threats, this is where they can really understand the value of their art. Gaining this experience readies them for learning how to function even better in their combat. With the right offer in gold they gain access to the training grounds where they can study and grasp their new potential.

 

[MerricB]

The gold for XP can be limited in several ways. The treasure has to transported out of the dungeon- or whatever. You can only carry so much. If you are too generous and characters gain levels too quickly- a run in with a vampire or other nasty level drain is a good solution.

Did that ever happen to Melf? I can only imagine he was extremely worried about energy drain, being a multi-classed character...

Cheers!