D&D (2024) The timing of the playtest

[Parmandur]

Nothing to see here, move along...

 

[Parmandur]

That's interesting observation, but I hope it's not accurate.

One class per month would PREVENT any real playtesting -- it would lead to responses based only on whiteroom analysis, or mixed-edition groups.

Mixed edition groups are an explicit goal of the playtest, per Crawford. The 21 page document so far is not a complete game: they want people to play mixed rule Characters, not just groups. And for UA, the goal is less "playtesting" and more "do you want this?" Actual hard playtesting is handled by their private playtest network.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

My impression of the Spelljammer books is...not good. There are extraordinarily few rules, and a whole lot of art, and maps of stuff which already existed in prior editions. The rules are so sparse that they literally just say "don't worry about it" when it comes to how to turn a ship, for example. And the ship weapons are so bad they tell you to not use them and just use PC ranged attacks if you want to be effective. And ship speeds make no sense. Between worlds they go too slow to actually reach a different star, and in system they literally move slower than a PC with 10 strength moving by thought alone.

I feel like these books were slapped together in a hasty manner. The only thing worth having is the new races and some monsters, and even the new races are sloppy at times. Hadozees for example are broken when combined with the ordinary jumping rules and can move 150 feet in a single move. [The Hadozee glide ability says any time they move downwards in the air they can glide 5ft at no movement cost. A 10 strength Hadozee can perform a standing, vertical jump of 1ft into the air. They then glide 5ft forward. This whole maneuver costs 1ft of movement. With 30ft movement, they can “jump-glide” 150ft per turn.]

And of course they're super thin books - 64 pages in a handback book looks like a pamphlet.

You can literally pull better ship rules out of Ghosts of Saltmarsh and house rule them for space ships far better than anything in these books.

I am pretty disappointed in WOTC for this release. It has me suspecting Planescape will be bad as well. They phoned this one in. And I've never said that about a 5e release.

I appreciate the frank impressions.

I was thinking about getting these…just in case. Something weird is happening on my campaign world’s moon!

But after this I am skeptical. I have saltmarsh and the things coming probably can use those rules…

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I think (unsurprisingly?) we're on the same page here. Even if it is still possible to run the old subclasses, I am wary of the power-realignment that is obviously happening (1st-level feats, etc.)

I honestly hope for a class restructuring, or at least a strong look at weak elements (design-wise, not power-wise, though sometimes those are the same thing) and I wouldn't mind if subclasses were carved more design space (though if they did that, they'd have to revise all the non-PHB subclasses.) I wouldn't want anything that couldn't be accomplished with an errata document for the non-PHB items to get them in line with the 50th PHB, though!

BUT... none of that should effect the upcoming books. I KNOW, it's hard not to worry (I admit, as a retailer, I plan to lowball my orders on the upcoming books just in case - it shouldn't stop me from being able to get more (other than the alt covers) if I need them).

I still don't think it should effect what you buy - if you're interested in Spelljammer, you should get Spelljammer. I don't believe that it will be obsoleted by the 2024 Core books. On the other hand, I wouldn't buy a DMG right now, if I was anyone. Nor would I recommend the PHB, Xanathar's, Tasha's, or the 2014 MM. The rest of the books are relatively safe, unless you're buying them for the subclasses, races, or monsters.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I appreciate the frank impressions.

I was thinking about getting these…just in case. Something weird is happening on my campaign world’s moon!

But after this I am skeptical. I have saltmarsh and the things coming probably can use those rules…

The Salmarsh ship rules and the Spelljammer rules are essentially the same thing, and neither work very well. I might make a thread to discuss it...

 

[Parmandur]

The Salmarsh ship rules and the Spelljammer rules are essentially the same thing, and neither work very well. I might make a thread to discuss it...

It's for quick and dirty vehicular combat situstiona, not in depth simulation, that's true. Personally, I need quick and dirty most of the time!

 

[FitzTheRuke]

It's for quick and dirty vehicular combat situstiona, not in depth simulation, that's true. Personally, I need quick and dirty most of the time!

I don't want in-depth simulation. I want something that players understand what's going on without me having to ignore half the rules and make up my own to keep it fun for them. I'll start the thread when I get home and we can talk about it there.

 

[CleverNickName]

I don't want in-depth simulation. I want something that players understand what's going on without me having to ignore half the rules and make up my own to keep it fun for them. I'll start the thread when I get home and we can talk about it there.

I really like the naval combat rules in Tribality Games's "Seas of Vodari" campaign setting. It sounds like they might be worth checking out, if you're looking for something intuitive and not-Saltmarsh. They have a 28-page, Pay-What-You-Want sample PDF available here if you'd like to take a look.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

I don't want in-depth simulation. I want something that players understand what's going on without me having to ignore half the rules and make up my own to keep it fun for them. I'll start the thread when I get home and we can talk about it there.

The truth is that weird complicated models probably don’t really change much in terms of prediction when dealing with fantasy things.

Something players can use to make decisions about random encounters—-educated guesses/calculated risks but that keeps the action going is where it’s at for rpgs—for me.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I don't want in-depth simulation. I want something that players understand what's going on without me having to ignore half the rules and make up my own to keep it fun for them. I'll start the thread when I get home and we can talk about it there.

Proficiency in water vehicles/spelljammer ships/whatever is an easy low-bar differentiator that (if the first p;aytest document is anything to go by) is being eliminated.

I hope they are not committed to that, as my feedback will indicate.