The tragedy of 4th edition.

[AllisterH]

Eh....I tske it few people here have had the pleasure of reading a White Wolf sourcebook. Now that's bad editing. Trying to not sound like a fanboy, but what exactly are you guys comparing it to?

Honestly, I find the editing and quality of the book to be better than average for the RPG industry.

The only company in the RPG industry that has consistently good editing is SJG and even there, SJG still has errata.

I don't think it is possible to have an errate free book which is as math-heavy/dependent as the PHB tends to be. Conversely, the more "fluff-oriented" books tend to have less errata which makes sense if you think about it.

For example, I thought the 3E FRCS book had way less errors/errata than the 3E PHB and yet, I'm pretty sure it actually has more words in it.

A PHB is basically a calculus mathbook and given the fact that even my calculus book at UofT required "errata" I'm not exactly going to consider this a "tragedy"

 

[Canaan]

you people are nuts.....

The gravamen of the OP's post is a lament over the poor production of the print product and not game design. While angel counters, conspiracy theorists and pundits might pull a word or phrase of hte original post out of context to craft a clever, yet unpersuasive argument to the contrary, why don't you just leave it be? Do you people have jobs? School? Friends? Be productive. DO SOMETHING. Don't criticize this guy for airing an opinion, an opinion I might add, that is verifiably correct if any one of you would bother to check his references.....which, in laymen's terms, makes his opinion, FACT.

Up yours, people!

I'm out!

 

[Umbran]

I'm out!

You will be, if you keep that up.

Let me be clear - our #1 rule around here is, "Keep it civil." We expect you to treat your fellow posters with respect. "Up yours!" is not an acceptable greeting or parting phrase. Don't use it again.

Folks, you can disagree without being a jerk. Don't follow this person's example.

 

[hong]

I don't know about anyone else, but I for one find it encouraging that the OP has downgraded from complaining about minions, versimi vesirim verisil believability, flexibility, noncombat rules, and whatnot, to complaining about the editing.

Keep it up, Andor! And you're next, Derren!

 

[Turjan]

I never said it was okay. I just said it's nothing new, surprising, or unexpected. It's like a vicious dog that has already bitten you five times... if you let it in a sixth time, the odds favor you ending up with some bite marks.

Hmm. The longer you have played D&D, the more bite marks you have collected? I guess I will have a closer look at diaglo if I ever meet him.

 

[Corjay]

Eh....I tske it few people here have had the pleasure of reading a White Wolf sourcebook. Now that's bad editing. Trying to not sound like a fanboy, but what exactly are you guys comparing it to?

Honestly, I find the editing and quality of the book to be better than average for the RPG industry.

The only company in the RPG industry that has consistently good editing is SJG and even there, SJG still has errata.

I don't think it is possible to have an errate free book which is as math-heavy/dependent as the PHB tends to be. Conversely, the more "fluff-oriented" books tend to have less errata which makes sense if you think about it.

For example, I thought the 3E FRCS book had way less errors/errata than the 3E PHB and yet, I'm pretty sure it actually has more words in it.

A PHB is basically a calculus mathbook and given the fact that even my calculus book at UofT required "errata" I'm not exactly going to consider this a "tragedy"

When I speak of editing, I speak of grammar, word choice, and consistency, which consistency is what I believe the OP was focused on. He has valid points concerning how the active text is laid out. That is strictly an editorial problem, and not a game design problem.

 

[Mark]

Hmm. The longer you have played D&D, the more bite marks you have collected? I guess I will have a closer look at diaglo if I ever meet him.

diaglo? He's practically indentured for (O)D&D!

 

[AllisterH]

When I speak of editing, I speak of grammar, word choice, and consistency, which consistency is what I believe the OP was focused on. He has valid points concerning how the active text is laid out. That is strictly an editorial problem, and not a game design problem.

Heh. I did read the OP wrong, my bad. What's funny though is my point I think still stands.

Again, have you read White Wolf products or HERO & *shudder* PALLADIUM? The same issue crops up there as well.

Again, only SJG products seem to be laid out well and consistent. But I do think this is because there isn't a consistent *industry* standard as to how to lay out a core rulebook.

I've been playing RPGs since 1E and what it comes to non-fluff material, pretty mch every RPG rulebook seems to have issues on layout. They can do the fluff stuff pretty well, but non-fluff pretty ok.

 

[Derren]

Its funny that "It was always bad, so it doesn't matter if its again bad (and arguably worse than the previous edition)" is an accepted defence now.

Isn't a new product supposed to be better than the old one? Apparently not...

 

[Incenjucar]

I've been complaining about the editing since day 1 of pre-release info.

I don't know WHY the editing is so horrible, but it's like reading newspapers horrible. Which really just tells me that I need to hurry up and get to Seattle as soon as possible so I can badger WotC for an editing job.

In the mean time, I do love 4E's design as a whole.

But man, the editing is newspaper quality at best. I'm not sure where the ball was dropped, but there was bouncing involved.