The trouble with 365_Bazaar

[ozziewolf]

Actually according to the rule which you pointed out since that is an immediate action the halfling cannot use it on his turn. Even though the trigger has occurred.

If you are going to allow that then any of those items could be used on your turn because the trigger occurs.

But thanks you have found an example in the PHB where that rule comes up, so we have four occasions now.

Reading comprehension.

You stated that it wasn't possible to use immediate actions on your own turn before these three items existed. I gave an example that it clearly was possible to create immediate actions on your turn. I also stated that using immediate actions on your own turn is against the rules.

I gave a perfect example of the rule being in place for a reason and not just for these three items. These three items may take advantage of the rule but the rule was not created for these items.

 

[ozziewolf]

My list of suggested errata are things that seem wrong. I think the limited utility of the immediate actions fits into those categories. If that is what is intended I think it should be stated more clearly.

Isn't the fact that you can only do it on an immediate action a clear indication for how it's intended to be used?

I could see if the rules about immediate actions where fuzzy in some way but they're not.

 

[Kordeth]

Actually according to the rule which you pointed out since that is an immediate action the Halfling cannot use it on his turn. Even though the trigger has occurred.

Err--yes, that's the point. It's another instance when the rule "you can't take immediate actions on your own turn" has an effect on gameplay.

But thanks you have found an example in the PHB where that rule comes up, so we have four occasions now. But note the Halfling racial ability still triggers of something the opponent does, they just happen to be acting in your turn.

There are a lot more instances than you think, even if they aren't explicitly called out. Any time an immediate reaction is triggered by a melee attack, you can't use that power if the melee attack was an OA you provoked. Any time an immediate action triggers another immediate action, someone is going to be unable to use their power. It comes up quite a bit more often than you think.

I'd be interested if someone could find an Immediate Action in the PHB that triggers off something the player using it does.

There aren't any, unless you count taking damage or dropping to 0 hit points to be something the player "does."

 

[Seeker_of_Truth]

Isn't the fact that you can only do it on an immediate action a clear indication for how it's intended to be used?

I could see if the rules about immediate actions where fuzzy in some way but they're not.

I don't think so. I also don't think that the fact that dragonrider armor is priced the same as magic armor with no powers is not a clear indication that it was intended. It seems wrong ... it might not be, but it seems wrong.

 

[Andor]

Tried to compile a list of things that seem wrong ... did I miss anything?

Errata suggestions

Shhhhh..... You might get lynched for suggesting to the faithful that their WotC masters might make an error of any sort when dealing with 4e....

Hey, Andor. This is an excellent point if you're trying to derail this thread into an off-topic argument. If you're trying to participate in the discussion, though, not so much.

Thanks for avoiding this sort of thing in the future.

~ PCat

 

[ozziewolf]

I don't think so. I also don't think that the fact that dragonrider armor is priced the same as magic armor with no powers is not a clear indication that it was intended. It seems wrong ... it might not be, but it seems wrong.

The pricing may be off and some of the other points could be valid as well, I haven't looked that closely at it.
I was only referring to items that can only be used through immediate actions. To me the creation of these items seems to be intentional rather than a bug that needs fixed.

 

[Kordeth]

Isn't the fact that you can only do it on an immediate action a clear indication for how it's intended to be used?

Not really. We're looking at a pretty new set of rules, and it's easy to miss the fact that not all triggered actions have to be immediate reactions or the fact that immediate reactions can't be used on your own turn. Freelancers are human too, sometimes mistakes get made and slip past the editors.

I could see if the rules about immediate actions where fuzzy in some way but they're not.

RAW are crystal clear. RAW also makes these items out to be extremely limited in usefulness, especially when compared to equivalently-priced weapons (compare Impaling with the RAW limit on when its power can be used to Terror Weapons or Thunderburst Weapons, for instance). Nobody's debating RAW, it's RAI that is being questioned here.

 

[Seeker_of_Truth]

The pricing may be off and some of the other points could be valid as well, I haven't looked that closely at it.
I was only referring to items that can only be used through immediate actions. To me the creation of these items seems to be intentional rather than a bug that needs fixed.

Several things in my list are possibly intentional. No one can categorically say how this stuff was intended to be. A causal read of the items powers would lead you to believe that their powers would be usable any time you hit with them, not any time you hit with an opportunity attack using them. This to me means that if they did indeed intend for the use of these powers to be that limited, they should make it more clear in the text.

 

[Bagpuss]

The pricing may be off and some of the other points could be valid as well, I haven't looked that closely at it.
I was only referring to items that can only be used through immediate actions. To me the creation of these items seems to be intentional rather than a bug that needs fixed.

They are using the rules in a new way however, so it is worth checking that was the intention. If it because it's actually as intend fine. Who knows the Magic Item book when it comes out could have dozens of items that work like this, at the moment it just seems very odd.

 

[The_Fan]

I bet the reason we see so many errors in these articles is because the staff of Dragon knows they will get a second shot. So what if there are errors in the first posting, it's really just a beta anyway. The forums will pick it up and by the end of the month we'll just post the eratta into the compiled version. Even then some of this will appear in future books, so they might even have a third shot at it.

But on the plus side, at least it's getting errata now. The old Dragon would never errata anything.