The True Vorpal Weapon

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

The Bless Weapon spell automatically confirms crits on evil creatures, but it doesn't work with an ability that improves criticals.

-Hyp.

Right. Bless is a first level spell. Could there be a higher level version of bless that would work with vorpal weapons? It would be a homebrewed spell, but what would such a spell look like and what would it take to put it on a vorpal weapon permanently?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Right. Bless is a first level spell.

Bless Weapon, not Bless.

Still a first level spell, but a different first level spell.

-Hyp.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

It's a very small step to settle on requiring the confirmation roll....It's one giant leap to TAKE AWAY the confirmation roll from the regular weapon.

I agree. Were it not for the history involved and the nostalgia, I wouldn't even consider it. No PC is ever likely to find a vorpal weapon in my game without it being used against them, first.

4 attacks a round = a 25% autokill chance? That's WAY too strong. The confirmation roll is there for balance. It's to make it harder to decapitate on an iterative attack.

I agree. However, in AD&D, said fighter had 3 iterative attacks and they were all at the same attack bonus. I think scaling the attack bonus on iterative attacks is new to 3.5, but I might have my wires crossed.

Your party prays you never get dominated and turn on them.

Absolutely. The last time said fighter was played, he found himself in a dream sequence where in he had to fight a clone of himself... Complete with a vorpal weapon... The fighter lost that fight. It came down to who rolled the first vorpal strike.

Think of it this way....would you normally allow a PC to get a weapon enchanted that works like this...'Every time you strike an opponent with this weapon, roll percentile dice. 1-25% and they die with no saveing throw allowed' Hrmm....sounds a little rediculous.

I understand what you're saying, but for nostalgia's sake, this isn't a normal situation.

And there is already bless weapon.

Yes, there is. Any thoughts on a homebrewed, but balanced, higher level version of bless that could be cast on a weapon and made permanent that would work with a vorpal weapon?

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

I think it's actually about 18.55% (formula would be 1-(19/20)^4), but you are correct that it's way too strong. Especially when you consider the ways that exist to get extra attacks and expand the crit range.

Thanks, I didn't check akbearfoot's math. And, you're right about the effects of expanding the crit range.

I would recommend simply making the item an artifact. The fact that the item has no price and can't be sold or bought would help give it a more 2e feel since (IIRC) there were no magic Walmarts in 2e like there are in 3e.

That's probably what I'll do. But, I still want to know how such an artifact would ever get made.

I hate magic wal-marts.

 

[Rackhir]

However, in AD&D, said fighter had 3 iterative attacks and they were all at the same attack bonus. I think scaling the attack bonus on iterative attacks is new to 3.5, but I might have my wires crossed.

AD&D didn't have modifiers for subsequent attack rolls. It was a class x level x roll vs ac matrix, with stat + magic item bonuses being most of your bonuses to roll. I don't know if the penalty on subsequent attacks was in 2e, but it wasn't in AD&D.

Pricing the item + effects in 3/3.5e is pointless, since as you have already said, we are talking about an item with an artifact level of power.

Also part of the point with artifacts is that they are beyond the normal creation rules. You can't make them with the magic item rules. It was made by the gods/ancient powerful wizard-king/Dragons/Hello Kitty and none other were ever made or will be made, etc...

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

I agree with everything you said. I'd also make it an artifact, if the 3.5 incarnation of vorpal won't suffice.

That may be the solution I go with.

I'm not sure why you need to get rid of the critical confirmation to begin with.

It's for nostalgia's sake. That's all. If the player had never had that character 15 years ago, he and I probably wouldn't still be playing today.

Flavorwise, that difference is downright trivial compared to the changes in the classes.

I agree, but we both really like the changes in the classes. And, I don't want to go back and DM 1e AD&D, at this time. Our game has really evolved with the use of 3.5 and I don't know if I'd be able to keep all the changed straight if we played 1e AD&D. But, I might try that as a one shot if I'm unable to work out a way that I like to let him play a version of that character in 3.5.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

Isn't getting rid of the confirmation essentially almost the same as "+10 to confirm critical hits"? I mean, all you need to do is "hit" with a confirmation, and AC already doesn't scale well with attack bonus at the high levels that such a weapon would be viable.

So, shouldn't be that hard to calculate the added cost of +10 to confirm a critical.

Well, that's a thought. We made a sample character as an experiment that had maxed out his ability to confirm criticals and gave him a vorpal weapon for a one shot. It still didn't quite capture the feel of the days of old for the player.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

AD&D didn't have modifiers for subsequent attack rolls. It was a class x level x roll vs ac matrix, with stat + magic item bonuses being most of your bonuses to roll.

That's what I thought.

I don't know if the penalty on subsequent attacks was in 2e, but it wasn't in AD&D.

I don't know, either. We practically skipped 2e and came back to DnD with 3.0.

Pricing the item + effects in 3/3.5e is pointless, since as you have already said, we are talking about an item with an artifact level of power.

Right. But, what would be required to make such an artifact?

Also part of the point with artifacts is that they are beyond the normal creation rules. You can't make them with the magic item rules. It was made by the gods/ancient powerful wizard-king/Dragons/Hello Kitty and none other were ever made or will be made, etc...

OK. Now, were getting somewhere... The original character got it in a battle with a giant chieftan. It was like a longsword to the giant and a two-handed sword to the fighter in question. I guess I need to flesh out the backstory and figure out how the giant got that sword. Unfortunately, that truth was never sought or discovered by the fighter in question.

 

[Rackhir]

That's what I thought.I don't know, either. We practically skipped 2e and came back to DnD with 3.0.Right. But, what would be required to make such an artifact?OK. Now, were getting somewhere... The original character got it in a battle with a giant chieftan. It was like a longsword to the giant and a two-handed sword to the fighter in question. I guess I need to flesh out the backstory and figure out how the giant got that sword. Unfortunately, that truth was never sought or discovered by the fighter in question.

A characteristic of artifacts that isn't really played up in the 3/3.5 D&D rules is that they are usually capricious and often serve powers with both an agenda and interests that are not necessarily those of the players. See Stormbringer, Daubindeck (Glen Cook's "The Swordbearer"), the One Ring, etc...

If a character has a vastly powerful artifact like this sword, it's rarely an accident.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

A characteristic of artifacts that isn't really played up in the 3/3.5 D&D rules is that they are usually capricious and often serve powers with both an agenda and interests that are not necessarily those of the players. See Stormbringer, Daubindeck (Glen Cook's "The Swordbearer"), the One Ring, etc...

If a character has a vastly powerful artifact like this sword, it's rarely an accident.

100% agreed!

I think that might be the hook that I'm looking for to be able to bring that character back into play. I need to develop the backstory and have the intent of the sword's existence start to become known... I think this is going to be a long term campaign project. I don't want to rush this.

Is The Swordbearer part of The Black Company stories? If so, I've been wanting to read some of them and that might be the book I start with.