The Ubiquitous 5' Step

[Li Shenron]

A creature with a speed of 5 or less can't take a 5 foot step anyway.

Good, so the rules take care of that already.

 

[Piratecat]

This rule was chosen on purpose, and isn't an oversight -- we asked about it way back in 1999 when we were playtesting 3e. Be cautious about changing it; doing so will make creatures bigger than medium much more dangerous in combat. They'll be able to maneuver around the battlefield with ease, drawing no AoOs and still getting full attacks.

Realism or no, I'd definitely advise against changing it.

 

[the Jester]

I agree with PC. I house ruled that change in about three months after 3e came out, and eventually house ruled it away again because it meant that pcs could never, ever get a full melee attack against big bad guys, while the big bad guys could. It made a huge difference as to how deadly large and bigger creatures were.

 

[DreamChaser]

i agree with Li and PC...

remember that creatures are assumed to be moving around in their "space" during any given round (which is why there is no "facing" and why there is no difference between long and tall creatures for most considerations. all a 5' adjustment means is that they have changed the borders of the "space" they are moving around in slightly.

DC

 

[phindar]

It made a huge difference as to how deadly large and bigger creatures were.

That's kind of what I'm going for. I appreciate the cries of "That way lies madness", but its still something I intend to experiment with (even if I ultimately come to the same conclusion you have).

I personally tend towards low to mid-level games, on the gritty, low fantasy side of things. I can experiment with rules that at the higher levels might really make the wheels come off the wagon and not worry about it since the higher levels don't come up that much for me.

Really, I'm doing this for the lowly, 4HD Ogre. I want to make him scary again. The Tarrasques and the Storm Giants are fine, they're probably as scary as they need to be. But I want the 10' tall neanderthal with the tree-sized club to be more of a threat than say, an orc with 4 class levels. I want even mid level fighters to have to consider whether or not they want to go into melee with something that big.

There comes a point with every rules tweak that you have to ask yourself-- even if it works just like you want-- is it still D&D? So I'll accept if some players think this is a bridge too far in terms of scaling up the Large and largers. It might work fine in my campaign, because I plan on using fewer big creatures and making the encounters I do use them that much more dramatic (like the Cave Troll in Fellowship, to pick a name out of a hat), but not gel with another groups playing style. It probably wouldn't be a good rule to adopt right before you started running Against the Giants, for example.

 

[Piratecat]

That's totally cool. You're doing it with your eyes open, you know why you're doing it, you're doing it to make the game more exciting, and you're keeping an open mind in case it doesn't work. Sounds great to me. You sound like the kind of DM I personally like.

I think if I were in your game, though, I'd cast enlarge a lot.

 

[shilsen]

Really, I'm doing this for the lowly, 4HD Ogre. I want to make him scary again. The Tarrasques and the Storm Giants are fine, they're probably as scary as they need to be. But I want the 10' tall neanderthal with the tree-sized club to be more of a threat than say, an orc with 4 class levels. I want even mid level fighters to have to consider whether or not they want to go into melee with something that big.

Throw a Bbn level on the ogre and it'll be far, far scarier than an orc with 4 class levels, even though they'll both technically be CR4. Stick a 16 in Str (before racial adjustments) and you've got an ogre that's at Str 30 when raging, doing +15 dmg from Str with a two-handed weapon.

You don't need to mess with the 5 ft step to make ogres really scary. I've beaten down 11th lvl PCs with CR 6 ogres.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

That's easy then. Use hill giant stats for your ogres. Problem solved.

Really, I'm doing this for the lowly, 4HD Ogre. I want to make him scary again. The Tarrasques and the Storm Giants are fine, they're probably as scary as they need to be. But I want the 10' tall neanderthal with the tree-sized club to be more of a threat than say, an orc with 4 class levels. I want even mid level fighters to have to consider whether or not they want to go into melee with something that big.

 

[Celebrim]

The size of the creature shouldn't matter.

A gelatinous cube doesn't get a bigger step just because its large or huge.

What matters is the speed of the creature.

I could see an argument that a creature with a base speed of say 80' or more deserves two 5' step adjustments, but I don't see how the size of the creature really matters at all.

 

[Arkhandus]

Like lances dealing double on horseback... imagine a half giant monk with a lance... larger and faster than a horse, but still no double damage. It's just too much of a headache.

Side-comment: This is probably because horses are quadrupeds, and much more stable when making a charge attack. A half-giant attacking at full speed with a lance may fall over backwards after the impact, whereas a horseman may ride out the impact strapped to his saddle, and continue onward (or at least stay in the saddle), because he has the added mass (yes, a horse with a rider on it is heavier than a lone half-giant) and stability of a four-legged mount that has strong legs and a strong back.