The Ultimate Universal Pantheon

[POPE]

Hello,

I was wondering if there is a concept for the Ultimate Universal Pantheon. What I am asking is, is there a group of divine concepts to be put together that just makes sense to be a unit. What are the concepts and areas of concern that just have to be included? Then what would be the roles and concepts of demons, devils, other celestial or infernal creatures as well as cosmic entities? Also what would be the working cosmology. I know that specific worlds have different needs but is there a place we can start, where customization is minimal?

Is anyone able or willing to help me do this?




To start:
Areas of concern[alignment]
A The supreme being, the creator, the first no alignment.
B The destroyer, envy, entropy, oblivion


The elemental overlords
fire
earth
water
air
positive energy
negative energy
[the void] ?
essence [magic]



1 Ruler of the gods, sky, lightning, storms, wisdom, weather and comunity [NG]
2 Death, the dead, the underworld, final judgement [LN]
3 Nature, wild animls and places [N]
4 Magic, arcane lore, knowledge and power [LN]
5 Fate, destny, time, continuity [N]
6 Agriculture, fertility, birth, life, motherhood [NG]
7 Love, emotions, beauty, passion [CN]
8 Strength, mountains, thunder, smiths [NG]
9 Sun, light, protection, law [LG]
10 War, warriors, battle
11 Knowledge,
12 Undead, decay, parasites, wasting [E]
13 moon, guidance
14 elemental power [N]
15 Dawn, spring, beginnings [NG]
16 hearth, home, family, children and marriage [NG]
17 tyranny, strife, power, oppression [NE]
18 chance, luck, skill [N/CN]
19 disease, plague, pestilence [CE]
20 evil, temptation, imprisonment, punishment [LE]

That's what I have for now.

POPE.

 

[POPE]

No thoughts? None at all?

 

[BrooklynKnight]

IMO, the "perfect pantheon" can be pulled right out of history.

Greek/Roman, Norse, and Egyptian gods.

There was one for just about everything and they have their own Jerry Springer type lives and stories.

In fact, if i'm not mistaken almost every year research of old scrolls or tablets from rome and greece reveal minor gods that arent mentioned in the mythology we know so well.

 

[MatthewJHanon]

Hmm... I guess I'm not quite sure what you are asking. Are you asking if there is a basic pantheon that all others could be based on?

If so, I'm not sure there is. Personally I think the differences in pantheons make them interesting, but that might just be me.

Or I may completely misunderstand what you are looking for.

 

[Wombat]

I think Classical mythology also shows how the D&D alignment system breaks down.

Zeus/Jupiter -- Chaotic? Well, he cheats on his wife/sister on a regular basis. Lawful? Well, he sets down the basic rules for the civilizations. Good? Evil? Neutral? Depends on how you look at it.

Same could be said for any of the Classical gods, especially as you look at them more deeply.

Conversely, almost all of the Egyptian gods would be Lawful and there would only be one truly Evil god (Set).

Norse? Odin is the Lawgiver (Lawful), the War-Fetterer (Evil), the Giver of Runes (almost anything you want), the Blood Drinker (Evil), the Finder of Heroes (Good), the One Who Fights Against Prophecy (Chaotic), the Bringer of Madness & Inspiration (Chaotic), the Battle Winnder (Good? Evil? Neutral?) and all the rest.

This is why I have removed alignment from my games. Actions and intentions are important, much more so than alignment. People (and gods!) develop reputations based on these actions. The same could be said for exact definitions of gods -- there are temples to Zeus Lawgiver, Zeus Thunderer, Zeus the Defender, and even Zeus Who Keeps Away Flies -- that's only one example of a god who is very hard to nail down

But in looking at the Sample Generic Pantheon some notions leap to mind. First of all, this is not a "real world (tm)" pantheon -- I can't think of any set of gods that has a "god of the undead" per se, nor of "elemental power". Ergo this is a Pantheon of Gaming Convenience, covering matters that gamers find important rather than what societies think are important.

 

[Larry Fitz]

Wombat brings up a very important point, albeit in an oblique way. Pantheons reflect the culture and environment of the worshippers. What's important to some societies may not be as important to others. If you live in a place where rain is scarce, the god in charge of rain can be fickle and cruel with little provocation. If you live in a place where hurricanes wreak havoc, the god of storms is vengeful and strong. Gods reflect the societies andcultures the rule over, that is also how they should be structured in a game world, as elements of a whole, not necessarily piecemeal, IMO.

edited because "fickle" doesn't have a 'j' in it.

 

[FireLance]

To add on to what Larry Fitz said, the characteristics of a real-world pantheon may change over time with the society and its environment. As a society becomes decadent, the ruler of the gods may change from a lawgiver to a seducer of women. A fishing community might make the god of storms the main villian in their pantheon. However, after a prolonged drought, the god of the sun may be seen as evil, and prayers are offered to the god of rain (note title change) to bring relief.

In a game world, however, where gods are independent entities in their own right, their personalities and characteristics should not change so much. Unless, of course, they are going mad, or undergoing a dramatic shift in world-view. But that is another issue.

 

[Laslo Tremaine]

Ah, but there's the rub.

If gods really existed, societies would reflect the gods, not the gods reflecting the societies.

I think that to have a pantheon that makes sense, you have to figure out what kind of societies you want to have and then design the gods so that the societies would reflect them.

In out world the gods change because they are just concepts (IMHO). As the societal concepts change so do the gods. In a fantasy world where gods are concrete physical (or metaphisical) entities, you would have a very differnt world than we have in reality.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Ultimate Pantheon for d20?

Book of the Righteous from Green Ronin.


It's near perfect.

 

[POPE]

So then what I am understanding is that there is no list of diefic attributes that is common enough to work in all or most campaign worlds. Starting with the list I proposed with additions and/or subtractions could one or as close as possible to one be built.


I do not have the The Book of the Righteous, so I don't even know what aspects are involved ther. I realize that my main basis is classical mythology.