D&D 4E The Usage of the Non-Sequitur "4e is a Tactical Skirmish Game"

[Badjak]

As a 4e advocate, I am not sure what this poll is suppose to show. What is the use of polling what I was thinking someone else was thinking when they were saying something. My personal theory is that all this poll will show is that we tend to think the worse of people with whom we have major disagreements with.

Likewise, the options for this poll can be easily redirected on the people participating in the poll as well.

"the user is attempting to gratuitously provoke/goad." If someone I disagreed with tried to tell me "what I is really thinking" when I said something, I would take that as a goad.

"the user is gratuitously "preaching to the choir/converted".
"the user is high-fiving/chest-bumping with other detractors or some other form of catharsis."

Creating a poll that only 4e advocates can post in seems to be a great example of the above statements.

In conclusion, I love my 4e, but I don't understand how this poll will show any relevant information.

 

[Lwaxy]

You could legitimately complain "I preferred trying to shut down dangerous monsters before they could do anything and researching and prepping for combat more than I enjoy focusing on positioning and incremental advantages in a longer combat with more swing." But that's just preferring one style of tactical gameplay to another.

Never thought of it that way but you have a point

Our very own GOGEW has a 4e complaint I haven't heard anywhere else yet. His issue is not with "not an rpg" or "too tactical." He says "4e is for wimps who don't get the rules of the other editions."

Never mind that we have 4e players who also GM in our 3.x games.

 

[D'karr]

He says "4e is for wimps who don't get the rules of the other editions."

I don't have anything against the rules of other editions. I actually understand them rather well, I just prefer not to fight with the "rules" when I'm DMing. If that makes me a wimp, so be it.

EDIT:
Yeah, under different circumstances I'd have reported the post but what good would it do, when the moderators choose to participate in the edition war.




-

 

[Obryn]

He says "4e is for wimps who don't get the rules of the other editions."

...and that's rank, edition war nonsense. Ad-hominem nonsense, at that.

As a DM who's successfully run games and campaigns in every edition - including 4e - I prefer to run 4e because I consider it a better game for my purposes, not because I somehow don't understand systems I ran for many years. I'm about a 30-year veteran gamer at this point.

(ETA: Yes, I know you don't agree with him. )

-O

 

[Lwaxy]

...and that's rank, edition war nonsense. Ad-hominem nonsense, at that.

As a DM who's successfully run games and campaigns in every edition - including 4e - I prefer to run 4e because I consider it a better game for my purposes, not because I somehow don't understand systems I ran for many years. I'm about a 30-year veteran gamer at this point.

-O

Yeah that's the same for both of our 4e players. EW guy is, on the other hand, a relatively new player ho started a year or two, I think, before 3.x was cancelled. He never ran any games either.

But he's a good player so we just have a rule about not talking about editions during a game (as there is also a small faction of "1e did everything better").

 

[GreyICE]

You know, I've never understood THAT particular school of thought. First Edition deserves credit for taking the wargaming miniatures genre and turning it into a roleplaying game, but it's like looking at a Model T and going "Now THAT'S the best car ever built."

Honestly, I've seen a lot of complaints, and a hell of a lot of them boil down to "I'm not comfortable with the changes/I don't personally like the changes/I think the changes should have been different." And that's a fine opinion, but then they try and dress it up. People instinctively don't want to hold an opinion that sounds like it's just personal taste, so they try and justify it. And stupid stuff happens, like trying to claim that 4E has a stronger tactical focus than 3E.

 

[Lwaxy]

But there are people who only love the old cars Heck, when I look at our car now, it tends to frustrate me that even changing a bulb is a major thing. Back in the good old days I learned to fix stuff on cars because in my family it was considered a necessary skill Today, it's the repair shop for about every little thing. Kind of sad.

Back in the good old days, we learned to make up rules on the fly, had to think about logical resolutions in a magical world because it was a necessary skill. Today, it's the rulebooks for every little thing. Kind of sad.

I guess the spontaneity and flexibility is what our 1e lovers miss most - but then we have it in our games for the most part so it is probably just nostalgia.

 

[Obryn]

1e is an incredible game that still runs wonderfully today. And I'm not just saying this because I grew up on it - I ran a mini-campaign in it very recently, before the responsibilities of parenthood took their toll.

I'd run it again in a heartbeat.

I really, really don't get the contempt that some 3e/4e fans have for the game. It's baffling to me. I can understand not wanting to play it - it's a different sort of beast - but contempt? That's crazy to me.

-O

 

[Lwaxy]

I'm considering doing a 1e mini arch as soon as possible - now that we have the reprinted rule books, I could probably get the others of the group to give it a try - reading from badly copied printouts wasn't that helpful

Already have some ideas for adventures, from the Dragonsfoot site.

 

[Obryn]

I'm considering doing a 1e mini arch as soon as possible - now that we have the reprinted rule books, I could probably get the others of the group to give it a try - reading from badly copied printouts wasn't that helpful

Already have some ideas for adventures, from the Dragonsfoot site.

OSRIC is another great resource. I would actually recommend their thief skills table over the normal 1e one; it works a lot better.

-O