The vampire starts with just 2 healing surges

[Ourph]

but we all know those players who are giving our game and ourselves as gamers a bad name.

qft.

 

[Dice4Hire]

On the subject of leaders with healing powers that don't require healing surges, I think it's the Ardent that has the most of those. Somehow I think any that Ardent which ends up in a party with a vampire should probably take the Siphon paragon path, which is basically the psychic vampire path.

Nah, I think clerics with all the cure .... wounds are better with surgeless healing.

 

[WalterKovacs]

One interesting note on the "friend giving blood to vampire" thing ... the vampire gets a daily utility at 16 to return the favor. He can lose a surge to give an ally 1 hp, their bloodied value in thp, and a saving throw with a bonus. Sort of an interesting thing ... it gives just enough to revive someone that is unconcious, but mostly just temorary vitality.

 

[gyor]

One interesting note on the "friend giving blood to vampire" thing ... the vampire gets a daily utility at 16 to return the favor. He can lose a surge to give an ally 1 hp, their bloodied value in thp, and a saving throw with a bonus. Sort of an interesting thing ... it gives just enough to revive someone that is unconcious, but mostly just temorary vitality.

Ironically the character that would benifit the most from that would be another vampire. They're regen would kick in because thps don't count for that and the thps would keep him in the fight long enough to heal back to bloodied while still fighting.

 

[Jhaelen]

But it seems very, very off to me that the expectation is that the other party members will ALLOW THE VAMPIRE TO DRAIN THEIR BLOOD.

I think, once you have a party allowing a vampire to join them that will no longer be a problem.

After the vampire goes all sparkly on you, you'll WANT the vampire to suck you dry

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I really beleve the revised multiclass rules may make or brake the new class design. I am still crossing my fingers...

Hey, they could easily add a layer: multiclass X as a theme. And specialized themes for other characters. It could even be unearthed arcana. I guess the decision to make it a class with very limited choices is obvious:

Balance is one of the highest held ideals. And things that deviate too much from the PHB1 design principle need to be more or less self contained. Imagine a slayer fighter that could swap power strike with rain of blows...

 

[Grabuto138]

A lot of people are praising the flavour of the vampire class.

But it seems very, very off to me that the expectation is that the other party members will ALLOW THE VAMPIRE TO DRAIN THEIR BLOOD.

Sure, from a game mechanical view point you're just giving up a healing surge and it is no different from giving one to an artificer or a ritual.

But from the flavour perspective it seems incredibly different to me.

I know that a great many characters that I play would be quite willing to give a healing surge via magical means but NOT by offering up my neck for a vampire to suck.

Part of that, of course, is a trust issue. Maybe after I'd adventured with the guy for 10 levels I'd change my mind. But at first level? Or after just meeting him? No way.

This is a very good explaination for why a vampire should not be allowed in certain parties. On the other hand in some other party the vampire may elevate the roleplaying experience of the party.

In any case it is good to have the option.

 

[Grabuto138]

Actually... all the fantasies you pointed out are just as moronic.

Hell, EVERY fantasy is moronic to a certain extent. I have no wool over my eyes thinking that when sit around a dining table speaking in a funny voice and acting as though I'm a scion of a merchant house with a magical mark upon my face that allows me to affect the weather... that it isn't just slightly stupid in the grand scheme of things. Most hobbies often are. I'm not afraid to admit it.

But that doesn't change the fact that *IF* you are going to do it... actually do it. Take some time with it. Consider it. Think about it. Use your brain, and your creativity, and your imagination and actually WORK at it. Become a more productive member of our gaming community.

And I know we hate to admit it to ourselves... but we ALL know those players who are giving our game and ourselves as gamers a bad name. And if what I post here can affect even a single person to not reflexively want to play a Vampire for no other reason than "VAMPIRES KEWL ROXOR BADASS!", but choose to play a Vampire because of the interesting roleplaying challenge that being this kind of character represents... then I feel better about being a member of this community.

I don't want my fellow gamers to be morons. I want to help them learn. This game is so much better when you actually understand it. And if that makes me a bad guy that I don't want my fellow players to spend their lives sitting in the darkness of the mindless pop culture vacuum of space... then so be it. I'll take my slings and arrows from you all.

(Of course, let's be honest, I probably deserve those sling and arrows anyway, because the cynic in us all knows quite well that the people for which my posts apply will read them and say "Pff! That's not me!" and ignore it anyway. So I'm basically peeing into the wind here. But at least I realize it and can laugh it off as being a pointless exercise. The important thing here is that it's keeping me from being bored at work.)

Emoticons do not make rude statements less rude.

How in the heck does a person become a "productive member of the gaming community?" Start DMing at a soup kitchen? Lobby Congress for "Roleplaying Game Awerness Month?"

I you don't mind, I think I'll just play D&D with my friends without worrying about my social responsibility to the greater gaming community.

And though you claim to want to help other gamers to learn, based on your attitude towards your fellow gamers I suspect you have nothing worth teaching.

 

[Rel]

Actually... all the fantasies you pointed out are just as moronic.

Hell, EVERY fantasy is moronic to a certain extent. I have no wool over my eyes thinking that when sit around a dining table speaking in a funny voice and acting as though I'm a scion of a merchant house with a magical mark upon my face that allows me to affect the weather... that it isn't just slightly stupid in the grand scheme of things. Most hobbies often are. I'm not afraid to admit it.

But that doesn't change the fact that *IF* you are going to do it... actually do it. Take some time with it. Consider it. Think about it. Use your brain, and your creativity, and your imagination and actually WORK at it. Become a more productive member of our gaming community.

And I know we hate to admit it to ourselves... but we ALL know those players who are giving our game and ourselves as gamers a bad name. And if what I post here can affect even a single person to not reflexively want to play a Vampire for no other reason than "VAMPIRES KEWL ROXOR BADASS!", but choose to play a Vampire because of the interesting roleplaying challenge that being this kind of character represents... then I feel better about being a member of this community.

I don't want my fellow gamers to be morons. I want to help them learn. This game is so much better when you actually understand it. And if that makes me a bad guy that I don't want my fellow players to spend their lives sitting in the darkness of the mindless pop culture vacuum of space... then so be it. I'll take my slings and arrows from you all.

(Of course, let's be honest, I probably deserve those sling and arrows anyway, because the cynic in us all knows quite well that the people for which my posts apply will read them and say "Pff! That's not me!" and ignore it anyway. So I'm basically peeing into the wind here. But at least I realize it and can laugh it off as being a pointless exercise. The important thing here is that it's keeping me from being bored at work.)

DEFCON1 won't be joining us any further in this thread and is taking a short vacation from ENWorld.. When a moderator tells you, "Don't insult people." then it's a VERY good idea not to use the exact same insult in your next post in the same thread.

 

[Dayte]

Why should they be penalized for the Vampires terrible design choices?

How about teamwork.

There are things about the vampire (without seeing the book yet) that make it difficult in certain cases and things that help compensate in others and are boons in even other cases.

How about teaming up a vampire with a high-con warlock. They can be some kind of husband and wife adventuring team?

I don't know. When I see different things.. I think cool. This class is different. How can a party make it work and have fun?

For those who think it's such a (pick one or a couple) horrible class / idea / monster / no fun / etc.... Don't play one and try to come up with a consensus in your gaming group as to why noone should play one. Done.

Others who enjoy (pick one or a couple) challenges / new ideas / the flavor / etc. will play it and then decide after play experience if it's fun.

But to dismiss out of hand............ I just don't get it when people come up with scenarios why a class or build would suffer. That's the beauty of DnD. It's a more complicated game of rock / paper / scissor. Other wise I would just keep playing Stratego like I did when I was 12, use the same strategy I came up with like the 20th time I played and just keep beating my little sisters. yeah, what fun..... uh, now I remember, I got bored and stopped playing that game.