D&D 5E (2024) The Versatile STR Fighter: Melee with a Real Ranged Option

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The question I was replying to on that line was if thrown weapons need to be more powerful to keep up with ranged weapons and the answer is no they dont.

Well according to your answer, yes they do.

Getting a returning weapon or both a dwarven thrown and belt of dwarvenkind is not commonplace.

And since Fighters are based on # of attacks, you'd need a dozen magic thrown weapons to have the attacks for a 4 round fight.

If Fighers could add STR to bows or get weapons to return, the STR only Warrior could work.

 

[CreamCloud0]

The question I was replying to on that line was if thrown weapons need to be more powerful to keep up with ranged weapons and the answer is no they dont.

i didn't actually say they needed to keep up with ranged weapons, just 'should they be a better option than they currently are', like, even if they just had longer ranges.

like consider, for a DEX martial, your basic most powerful weapons without getting into using feats like crossbow expert, is probably rapier/longbow, at d8/d8(150/600), equal offences more or less unless you've got additional factors influencing things.

but a STR martial, you're probably using something like greataxe/trident at d12/d8(20/60) or if you want the longest distance you can get you go javelin for d6(30/120), and all other thrown weapons are d6 or d4 at (20/60) i believe.

except, we all pretty much know that out of the two DEX is generally the more favourable of the two stats to have, it does alot more things for your character, so i don't think it would tip the balance of the game if thrown weapons actually got better distances on them, especially on their lower accuracy range thresholds.

 

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I miss the days when a well made longbow added strength to damage. This combo somewhat evokes that feeling. I like it.

That makes for a good Weapon Mastery

Snipe:
If you hit a creature with a ranged attack roll using this weapon, you can add your Strength modifier to your damage rolls.

 

[ECMO3]

Well according to your answer, yes they do.

No they don't. They do more damage than ranged weapons and the question was do

Getting a returning weapon or both a dwarven thrown and belt of dwarvenkind is not commonplace.

So what?

And since Fighters are based on # of attacks, you'd need a dozen magic thrown weapons to have the attacks for a 4 round fight.

No you wouldn't. You have a few magic weapons and then you start throwing non-magic weapons and yes if you want to rely on Ranged attacks then bring a dozen or more.

Also if we are going to start counting a fighter can go around and pick up his thrown weapons after a fight, an archer can only pick up half of the arrows and it takes you a full minute to do it regardless of how many shots you fired. So over the course of an adventuring day an archer would need a hundred or so arrows vs as you said a dozen or so thrown weapons if both of them eschewed melee completely. I think that is pretty comparable.

 

[CreamCloud0]

No you wouldn't. You have a few magic weapons and then you start throwing non-magic weapons and yes if you want to rely on Ranged attacks then bring a dozen or more.

Also if we are going to start counting a fighter can go around and pick up his thrown weapons after a fight, an archer can only pick up half of those the arrows and it takes you a full minute to do it regardless of how many shots you fired. So over the course of an adventuring day an archer would need a hundred or so arrows vs as you said a dozen or so thrown weapons if both of them eschewed melee completely. I think that is pretty comparable.

i don't know why martials should even have to bother with ammo tracking and needing returning weapons when casters can just fire off an unlimited number of firebolts, rays of frost or vicious mockeries to their heart's content

 

[ECMO3]

i didn't actually say they needed to keep up with ranged weapons, just 'should they be a better option than they currently are', like, even if they just had longer ranges.

like consider, for a DEX martial, your basic most powerful weapons without getting into using feats like crossbow expert, is probably rapier/longbow, at d8/d8(150/600), equal offences more or less unless you've got additional factors influencing things.

but a STR martial, you're probably using something like greataxe/trident at d12/d8(20/60) or if you want the longest distance you can get you go javelin for d6(30/120), and all other thrown weapons are d6 or d4 at (20/60) i believe.

I think it is a lot more complicated than this though when you consider weapon mastery and level.

The most powerful combo for a 1st dex bowman PC is 2d6+2xdex melee/1d10+dex ranged
The most powerful combo for a 1st level strength thrown PC is 2d6+2xstr melee/1d6+1d4+2xStr ranged

You move to 5th level and now with extra attack it is dex 3d6+3xdex/2d8+2xdex ranged
5th level strength-based PC is 3d6+3xstr melee/1d8+1d6+1d4+6+2xstr ranged

11th level bowman 4d6+4xstr/3d8+3xdex
11th level thrower 6d6+3xstr/2d8+1d6+1d4+3xstr+8

Those include only a single fighting style feat (either two weapon fighting or thrown weapon fighting whichever is better) and no other feats. Now you could switch the dex guy to Archery and get a +2 on attack rolls, which would even it out quite a bit, but then you lose substantially in melee damage.

That doesn't consider range and that could be a factor, but most of the time I think throwing weapons is going to come out on top damage wise and combining throwing weapons on a high melee damage character is going to be more overall than you are going to do with a bow, highly specialized builds not withstanding.

Those numbers are also raw number of attacks, they don't count any extra damage bonuses or riders you get which key off of attacks.

 

[ECMO3]

i don't know why martials should even have to bother with ammo tracking and needing returning weapons when casters can just fire off an unlimited number of firebolts, rays of frost or vicious mockeries to their heart's content

Casters should be able to do that, I don't think people using mundane arrows and daggers should have an unlimited supply of them. Now if they have a spell or a quiver of holding like thing that gives them an unlimited number then that is a different story

Also martials are not restricted to using weapons. There are many ways to get a Cantrip or two on your Fighter, Ranger, Rogue or Paladin PC and it scales the same as the full caster's Cantrip does so that is an option available to them too if they want it.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Casters should be able to do that, I don't think people using mundane arrows and daggers should have an unlimited supply of them. Now if they have a spell or a quiver of holding like thing that gives them an unlimited number then that is a different story

Also martials are not restricted to using weapons. There are many ways to get a Cantrip or two on your Fighter, Ranger, Rogue or Paladin PC and it scales the same as the full caster's Cantrip does so that is an option available to them too if they want it.

ah, caster superiority bias strikes again!

 

[Minigiant]

No they don't. They do more damage than ranged weapons and the question was do



So what?



No you wouldn't. You have a few magic weapons and then you start throwing non-magic weapons and yes if you want to rely on Ranged attacks then bring a dozen or more.

Also if we are going to start counting a fighter can go around and pick up his thrown weapons after a fight, an archer can only pick up half of the arrows and it takes you a full minute to do it regardless of how many shots you fired. So over the course of an adventuring day an archer would need a hundred or so arrows vs as you said a dozen or so thrown weapons if both of them eschewed melee completely. I think that is pretty comparable.

A fighter would have a MUCH easier time getting a magic bow and carrying a quiver or 2 of nonmagical arrows and recovering 1/2 the ammo after battle than finding 4-6 magical thrown weapons and constantly by picking them up.

 

[ECMO3]

ah, caster superiority bias strikes again!

How so? As I noted Cantrips are not fenced to Full Casters. Every single martial can grab 2 Cantrips with an Origin Feat and they can get them through a species or General Feats.

I think it is actually the other way around in 2024 because it is more difficult for most full casters to get proficiency in martial weapons than it is for martials to get Cantrips. Play for example a single class Bard that is not Valor or Wizard that is not Bladesinger or any Sorcerer at all and I think you are completely locked out of martial weapon proficiency in the 2024 rules.