D&D 5E (2024) The Versatile STR Fighter: Melee with a Real Ranged Option

[Minigiant]

On Rogues Truestrike is now the default for optimizers whether Dex primary or not. If you are talking a single class Rogue there are three ways to get it I know of; Origin Feats, Arcane Trickster or High Elf. Optimizers usually pick Elf also usually with Elven Accuracy feat at level 4.

Bolded for emphasis.

Cha Truestriking Elf Rogue is purely a optimizer build. It is not the overall norm, not the class fantasy, and very limiting on roleplay.

 

[Zardnaar]

Bolded for emphasis.

Cha Truestriking Elf Rogue is purely a optimizer build. It is not the overall norm, not the class fantasy, and very limiting on roleplay.

I had this thought 2002/3 with 3E.

 

[Minigiant]

I had this thought 2002/3 with 3E.

The big difference between 3e and 5e is that the gap between the roleplay build, the popular decent powergame build, and high optimized build was bigger in 3e.

The 5e Cha Truestriking Elf Rogue is a high optimization build. However I doubt even more than 10% of the people who want to play Rogue desire playing a Cantrip spammed.

The STR/DEX greatsword/longbow fighter in 5e is not the tiptop of optimization but it is a strong versatile build with tons of roleplay options. It runs on 1 feat.

 

[Zardnaar]

The big difference between 3e and 5e is that the gap between the roleplay build, the popular decent powergame build, and high optimized build was bigger in 3e.

The 5e Cha Truestriking Elf Rogue is a high optimization build. However I doubt even more than 10% of the people who want to play Rogue desire playing a Cantrip spammed.

The STR/DEX greatsword/longbow fighter in 5e is not the tiptop of optimization but it is a strong versatile build with tons of roleplay options. It runs on 1 feat.

More i dint think high optimized was as widespread in 3E the internet assumed.

Best great weapon melee weapon to use with GWM feat

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I would say it is useful on virtually all Rogues (not sure if they meet your martial definition) and can be situationally pretty useful on martials with extra attack.

I definitely view Rogues as martials. I think that True strike is of use on some rogues.
It has opportunity cost to obtain, since it requires specific races or origin feats.
It locks you out of dual-wielding as a way to get more chances to apply Sneak Attack: True strike rogues generally rely on having advantage, so they have to turn themselves into a turret with Steady Aim, or have a lot of cover available to duck behind.

I'm sure that it is a good way to get DPR on paper, but I've yet to run into many who actually play their rogues like that.

It is also typically the best ranged attack on a dex-based melee character who dumps strength and uses a shield (which is itself situational) as it is usually better than throwing 2 daggers. I've also seen it on strength-based sword and board characters to use with a pistol as an available basic ranged option (assuming the DM allows you to carry a loaded pistol).

A "dex-based melee character who dumps strength and uses a shield" is a really niche character. Generally most Dex-based melee characters don't use a shield, they dual-wield because it allows them to swap to ranged weapons rapidly. I don't think that I've seen many of those characters at all. Likewise Str-based characters tend to use Extra Attack.

Now having options is always better than not having options. But as mentioned, there is an opportunity cost to having the cantrip, and the option to deal lesser damage but of the radiant type may not be worth it.
Particularly (bringing this back closer to the original topic) because you're losing GWM bonuses and similar by using True Strike with the Longbow.

Here is your exact words in context. I may not understand what you meant, but you said wield weapons:

"When martials can cast using their primary or secondary ability scores in the same way that many casters can wield weapons using their primary or secondary ability scores",

I did indeed say "wield weapons", and I meant exactly that.

Ammunition though gets used up very fast if you are firing 2 arrows (and using up 1) every single round. I mean 100 arrows is 100 rounds of combat with extra attack. That is all you will get out of them. That is enough in some campaigns where you have the opportunity to restock, but it is far short in others.

I've not been in many situations where that became relevant, but you evidently consider it a factor. Do you think that having to use a limited stock of ammunition for your ranged attack is quite a disadvantage compared to having a ranged attack where ammunition isn't a factor then?

 

[Minigiant]

More i dint think high optimized was as widespread in 3E the internet assumed.

Well that's because many of the highly optimized stuff requires books most people have. Fans didnt have the books to run them so at best they could hope a DM would allow stuff no one owned.

The difference with 5E is the highly optimized bills are character concepts that few people want to roleplay and run in a campaign.

Highly Optimized 3e stuff was often overtuning basic builds with splatbooks via supplemental feats, spells, and crafted nagic items. CODzilla and and Batman wizards were about breaking basic casters.

 

[Zardnaar]

Ź

Well that's because many of the highly optimized stuff requires books most people have. Fans didnt have the books to run them so at best they could hope a DM would allow stuff no one owned.

The difference with 5E is the highly optimized bills are character concepts that few people want to roleplay and run in a campaign.

Highly Optimized 3e stuff was often overtuning basic builds with splatbooks via supplemental feats, spells, and crafted nagic items. CODzilla and and Batman wizards were about breaking basic casters.

Yeah book access was an issue. I had a lot and even i couldn't do it. Didn't play that way anyway.

 

[Minigiant]

I've not been in many situations where that became relevant, but you evidently consider it a factor. Do you think that having to use a limited stock of ammunition for your ranged attack is quite a disadvantage compared to having a ranged attack where ammunition isn't a factor then?

Again just for info:

5e is based around 20-25 combat rounds. Since you recover half your ammo, you only ever need 2 quivers of arrows for 2gp per adventurer day until level 11.

 

[Zardnaar]

Again just for info:

5e is based around 20-25 combat rounds. Since you recover half your ammo, you only ever need 2 quivers of arrows for 2gp per adventurer day until level 11.

Its not even that these days.

 

[Minigiant]

Its not even that these days.

For tables doing just 1-2 encounters and a boss fight, you will not need the second quiver.

Plus the new stow sheath rules.

Str/Dex fighter eating good.