The Weapon Skill System, Updated, Clarified, and Improved.

[Medwyn]

So by proficient/not proficient means if it appears on your class weapon list? That seems to makes sense.
If the above statement is true then:
So do feats like martial weapon proficiency make those weapons "proficient" for you, ie., purchased ranks cost less?

That is much simpler, though at the expense of detail. So what is this spycraft defense you spoke of?

Yeah, if it is on your class list you are proficent, Martial Weapon Proficency Feat is used as you say, although I have house ruled it to you may choose to be proficent in another weapon group.

Although it is simpler you can easily add to it by splitting groups further, say making additional groupings like Simple Melee or Druid Weapons etc.
And it does add a lot of room for new feats and class abilities.

Spycraft is a modern day spy game brought out by AEG.
They IMHO make some great improvements to d20, and I have taken the modern system and converted it to Fantasy.
Basically classes get a class defense bonus (and an initiative bonus), but if you wear armour your class defense is replaced by the armour you are wearing. Light armour gives a slight bonus while real heavy armour gives a penatly and armour gives you DR.
And from this there is an assortment of class features and feats that can build from this like bonus DR and including class defense while wearing armour plus a whole range of other defense bonuses.

And from there I went and changed the vp/wp system to increase the lethal level.

Now I guess I'll go back and edit my table from before.

-Medwyn

 

[Sravoff]

Yeah, a friend of mine got the revised star wars book and I really like the way they did defense and DR there. Probably very close to spycraft. However when changing it over to fantasy I found that weapons did quite a bit less damage and weapons like daggers and scimitars became next to useless. So I began trying to monkey around with it a bit and found that that made the whole thing worse than before. So I started working on this skill system.

Eventually I will find a system that works good for me, I must be patient...

Er... how do i get my color back? and how do I change font size?

-Sravoff

 

[Medwyn]

Yeah, a friend of mine got the revised star wars book and I really like the way they did defense and DR there. Probably very close to spycraft. However when changing it over to fantasy I found that weapons did quite a bit less damage and weapons like daggers and scimitars became next to useless. So I began trying to monkey around with it a bit and found that that made the whole thing worse than before. So I started working on this skill system.

Eventually I will find a system that works good for me, I must be patient..
-Sravoff

I don't have Star Wars D20 but I although similar from what I understand it is also different.
I have kept most of the weapon damages the same, I have been tweaking Threat and Error Ranges to suit my needs.
I found that by reducing the amount of vitality points everything had made the game more lethal combat quicker and more suited to my needs.
Also with all the Damage Reduction and such I found it was much easier to knockout and capture PC's when needed.

As for how to format text I guess there would be some lovely tags to do that for you too.

-Medwyn

 

[Sravoff]

Yeah, I should use tags for my writings, I am just a little lazy.....

-Sravoff

 

[Sravoff]

I fianlly got the system redone and clarified. The first two posts hold the system while later posts are discussions about the previous system. Most discussed topics are now incorperated into the main post.

What do you guys think about it? Do you see any definite holes? Any suggestions?

Before any one says anything about dodge let me say this:
I realize dodge is one of the most important skill there. I have however not been able to come up with an alternative to the way dodge works now. If any one has suggestions I am still interested I just figured I would say this and let you now I have seen this potentialy problematic piece.

Thanks in advance!

-Sravoff

 

[Medwyn]

Why are clubs and hammers split up?
They use the same basic 'attack' pattern, you pick it up and swing and hit something.
I'd also be tempted to put spears in with Pole Arms, more than leave them in their own group.
Also why are swords the only weapon to be have a two handed variety?
Why no two handed axe group or two handed clubs?

Along this line if I hold my longsword in two hands do I use my one hand sword or two hand sword?
What if I am using a bastard sword?

With the spell directing, why can't I use my unarmed to touch someone?

Personally I don't like having each melee weapon group having an attack and defense rating, and then ranged weapons being different.

Perhaps weapons should be just for attacking.
Then allow your dodge skill (dex based) or a block skill (str based) for defense.
This way if you want to be more defensive you can focus on it.

Perhaps making dodge a class skill for Rogues and Monks. Block a class skill for Fighters and for everyone it is they are cross class skill.

Your feats seem to be a bit weak. Spending a feat to get a +1 to Dodge doesn't seem worthwhile, maybe if you made it a bigger bonus in (+3?) would make it a more valid option.

You do have a good idea to make weapons as skills, and I've already showed you what I use.

-Medwyn

 

[Sravoff]

Valid points my friend, valid points. However,

Why are clubs and hammers split up?
They use the same basic 'attack' pattern, you pick it up and swing and hit something.

Yes they are, though so is hammer, club, ax, pick. I did it for the need of more catagories. I think no skill should have too many or too few weapons. If all were purt togather then tgheir would be very few skills.
clublike weapons, swords, pole arms, bows, thrown, dodge, unarmed, spell direction.
That is only eight skills. A fighter would run out of points if he had an int mod.
I did it for the sake of game balance.

I'd also be tempted to put spears in with Pole Arms, more than leave them in their own group.

I agree with you but for the sake of game balance.....

Also why are swords the only weapon to be have a two handed variety?
Why no two handed axe group or two handed clubs?

Along this line if I hold my longsword in two hands do I use my one hand sword or two hand sword?
What if I am using a bastard sword?

There would be far too few weapons in that catagory, or too many.
Also a misprint. should be 'big' and 'small' swords. I'll have to fix that.

With the spell directing, why can't I use my unarmed to touch someone?

You should be able to, I'll edit that in. Thanks!

Personally I don't like having each melee weapon group having an attack and defense rating, and then ranged weapons being different.

Perhaps weapons should be just for attacking.
Then allow your dodge skill (dex based) or a block skill (str based) for defense.
This way if you want to be more defensive you can focus on it.

I thought about it but it causes problems. If a fighter can only get dodge as a cross class skill, then at level twenty he can get +11. A level twenty archer gets +23 to hit. Thats pretty much an auto hit, not to mention the additional damage, while not life threatening it could be problematic.

The feats do seem rather weak and a +3 would seem apropriate. I would also have to make a block skill.

Hope that clears up most of it.

-Sravoff

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

Like I said in an earlier incarnation of this thread, I've been thinking about this exact thing, as well as a skills based casting roll system. I've just not been overly inspired to work the kinks out, as my group gets together so infrequently it's not worth forcing a huge rules change on them.

But boy...would I like to.

 

[Sravoff]

I know. I played Shadowrun, which is where I got the idea, and their combat/magic system is the best I have ever seen. Tis just hard for me to be creative in a world so similar to our own and plus reformatting the system for fantasy is rather annoying. So I opted for this, as D&D has many books and creatures already.

Monsters weapon skills

Outsider (8+int mod)
Monstrous Humanoid (6+int mod)
Aberration, Dragon, Elemental, Fey, Giant, Humanoid, Magical Beast (4+int mod)
Construct, Ooze, Plant, Undead, Vermin (2+int mod)

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

Your weapon groupings are similar to the Weapon Group Feats offered in Unearthed Arcana, a rule I plan to implement when I begin to DM again in August.

I'm not super keen on the weapon level idea, now that I've had a chance to look it over. That's almost like a free rank in a weapon skill, right?