D&D 5E (2014) The woes of the elf and his longsword

[Ferrous]

It is an artifact of the legacy of the system.

The Longsword used to mean basically sword in D&D. There were not any scimitars or rapiers in the game. Over time more and more swords were added. In 5th edition the definition of a Longsword changed to a hand and a half weapon or what used to be called in D&D a Bastard sword. This is fine and actually this definition of a Longsword is more historically accurate. However it does give a mismatch between flavour and mechanics. In my world the slim, elegant blades that Elves are often portrayed as using are called rapiers.

 

[Garrand]

Back in 3e, I created an Elf wizard that routinely used a longsword and longbow. He was fluffed as a noble out in the world to learn alternative views on magic. OF COURSE he would use a longsword even if that is not optimal for his character "build." I did it for roleplaying purposes, not for min-max purposes. Later on, he was able to infuse his longsword with magic, giving it special wizardly abilities (IIRC it was a Longsword of Spell Storing). Rather than looking at things as an opportunity to min-max the character, I looked at it as an opportunity to make a more interesting and unique character from an RP perspective. Different play styles are what they are, but for me having a character that is interesting to roleplay rather than being optimized strictly for the combat bonuses it can get is more rewarding for my experience at the table.

Damon.

 

[Sacrosanct]

this whole thing could be fixed if they want back to the same damage dice for every weapon like OD&D and B/X

 

[Garrand]

Another point that occurs to me is whether you look at the game as a "simulation" or "emulation" of a fantasy world, or whether you feel the rules should drive the "reality" of the setting? Personally I am on the "simulation/emulation" side of things. It does not matter that proficiency in longswords is "optimal" or not. There is some element in the setting (culture, history, etc) that makes elfs prefer longswords, and the rules accommodate this. Why do elfs prefer longswords? That's a job for DM worldbuilding. I personally have no problem with elfs being proficient in longswords (I am a fan of elves in general, play ALL the elf factions in Warhammer & 40K, regularly play either elfs or dwarfs in D&D as my "go-to" characters if I don't have an interesting concept already in mind).

Damon.

 

[Ferrous]

Well it wouldn't be fixed as long as Finesse was in the game? As long as Elves have a Dexterity bonus they will want a Finesse weapon? Longswords used to be finessable (with a Feat) now they are not because they are what used to be called Bastard Swords. There is a long, elegant Finesse sword available. It is called a rapier or indeed scimitar. As it stands now Elves being proficient in Longswords is a somewhat weird artifact of the games history.

 

[Paraxis]

I don't think it has anything to do with the damage die, it is the attack and damage bonus from the finesse quality.
Elves would use short swords and rapiers because they can use their higher dex modifier.

Say you have an elf commoner with 10's in everything before racial modifiers. With a longsword he is +2 hit and 1d8 damage, with a short sword +3 hit and 1d6+1 damage, not to mention he can now have a second short sword in his off hand in place of a shield if he wants. The short sword does the same average damage as the longsword with the extra +1, but that +1 to hit could be the difference between a hit and a miss or killing something before it kills you.

Even one of the options on the elf moonblade in the DMG is to give it the finesse property because any elf that would fight with that weapon would want it to be finesse.

 

[ExploderWizard]

It is an artifact of the legacy of the system.

The Longsword used to mean basically sword in D&D. There were not any scimitars or rapiers in the game. Over time more and more swords were added.

Say what now?

Original D&D and Basic D&D just had the sword. Looking over the AD&D PHB (1978) weapon list, I see scimitar, sword-bastard, sword-broad, sword-long, sword-short, and sword-two handed.

So right from 1E we had sword types with different damage, speed factors, AC adjustments, etc. Whether we need all that in an abstract system is the topic of another thread.

 

[Gadget]

The rapier is a weapon Zorro or the Three Musketeers employ. Not something a mythical magical race uses in a medievalish setting. Traditionally, D&D has used the long sword to represent the generic medieval sword, with the two-handed, bastard, and short variants that, for various reasons, did not get as much screen time (yes, 1e had the broad sword and the scimitar as well, but they were really just largely flavor variants).

The real culprit here is the Weapon Finesse feature that gives Dex a much more prominent place than in melee combat and encourages a certain amount of min/maxing.

 

[Morrus]

The rapier is a weapon Zorro or the Three Musketeers employ. Not something a mythical magical race uses in a medievalish setting. .

Ssshh! Don't tell the elves in my game that!

 

[Derren]

By douchebags you mean my races mortal enemy for thousands of years?

In the US there were many people after World War II that would not use German or Japanese products, just because of the hatred still felt for those countries.

And that is a "short" war against two countries. Imagine that your people had been at odds for thousands of years.


I can completely see not wanting to use a weapon with a stigma associated to it, regardless of utility.

And yet the US hired all the German scientists to build weapons for them. Practicality wins, you just have to rebrand things.

Evolution, which is a very broad-strokes process, doesn't really apply to the minuscule difference between a rapier and a longsword. Generally speaking, natural selection only cares that they are using weapons at all.

It is a cultural bias, nothing more. As such, it doesn't have to make sense to someone who isn't an elf.

Evolution is probably the wrong word, but why would elves create a tradition (which is usually born out of practicality) around a weapon they are less adapt in using than comparable weapons?
Mechanically this is simply a holdover from way back when longswords were "the best" swords and things like finesse did not exist. But now with weapons granting finesse on their own with no special training it makes no sense that a race which is on average more dexterous than strong wouldn't favor them over strength based weapons.