The Worship Points System

[Upper_Krust]

Re: Re: NA again

Hey Simon!

The barbarian damage-reduction power doesn't really make much sense except as a supernatural 'gimme', I'd say it should not reduce DEX but shouldn't really work in an anti-magic field. The ability to 'roll with the blow' is usually factored into hp not damage reduction. But maybe it's a kind-of 'meta-hit points' - an ability to ignore minor cuts and scratches? It makes no sense as literal 'leathery skin' hardness, anyway.

I both agree and disagree.

I can see the point of stoic/weatherbeaten skin naturally reducing damage by 1 or possibly 2 points...but not beyond that.

So I see your point that it is probably along the lines of a 'ki' ability and as such supernatural.

Balance wise either extarpolation works although I am tending to favour making it simply a supernatural ability as you suggested - certainly makes a lot more sense at higher levels.

 

[Ashardalon]

Hello, Upper_Krust!

Hey! Knight Otu mate! Or should that be Ashardalon!?

I'll stay Ashardalon for a while, but hopefully, my 'Knight Otu'-account will be open sometime this week.

I trust your studies have been going well!?

More or less, but I'm done for the semester, and slowly, the marks are coming.

Regarding supernatural armor, I've made my mind up and have come to the conclusion that it is a good idea - just add it as an optional rule, as you have already planned!

Regarding Eä's formula: The complex thing is the "foreplay" (I'd say it is complex, and I study Mathematics!). The actual formula, the last line, is not really complex, but you do need a calculator.

 

[S'mon]

Re: Re: Re: NA again

Hey Simon!



I both agree and disagree.

I can see the point of stoic/weatherbeaten skin naturally reducing damage by 1 or possibly 2 points...but not beyond that.

So I see your point that it is probably along the lines of a 'ki' ability and as such supernatural.

Balance wise either extarpolation works although I am tending to favour making it simply a supernatural ability as you suggested - certainly makes a lot more sense at higher levels.

The 'weatherbeaten skin' analysis makes no sense when you consider that ogres and lizardmen don't get this ability - and just how tough can Red Sonja's skin be, anyway? It's silly - and if it were the case that barbarian skin got tougher by level they'd get an AC bonus, not damage reduction.

Just posted this elsewhere:

Minimum Weight by STR

In the interests of credibility there's a limit to how non-magically strong an 80lb human can be. The following is a suggested table of absolute minimum character weight by STR, since lean muscle mass has a pretty consistent weight/power ratio. This should work fine for manlike humanoids, it may not work for halflings or gnomes (it wouldn't work for chimpanzees either). If a generated character has weight below these minima, simply raise their weight to the minimum given. Figures are derived from the PHB Encumbrance by STR table. Table can be ignored for magically augmented STR (eg Wishes).

STR Minimum weight
24-25 350 lb
22-23 270 lb
20-21 200 lb
18-19 150 lb
16-17 115 lb
14-15 88 lb
12-13 65 lb
10-11 50 lb
8-9 40 lb
6-7 30 lb
4-5 20 lb
2-3 10 lb

What do you think? Rem this applies only to nonmagical strength gained from humanlike muscle mass. I think it was inspired by a Xena episode where she beat a guy obviously vastly more muscular than her in a straight arm-wrestle.
Max human starting STR is 18, the implication is that eg a 20th level PC with natural STR 23 weighs at least 270 lbs. Also no 95 lb half-elf females with STR 18.

 

[S'mon]

ki powers

I agree that the Barbarian damage reduction is best considered a Ki-type power derived from spiritual strength rather than from having skin harder than leather armour!

There's a reasonable case for allowing ki powers to function in an a-m shell; a VASTLY stronger case than the 3e rule that golems(!) demons, undead and suchlike function in a-m. If psionics function in an a-m shell (which I'd allow), I'd also allow monkish powers, barbarian damage reduction etc to function.

But I wouldn't allow undead or golems etc to enter an a-m shell at all, and probably not demons et al unless it were an a-m shell cast on their home plane or by an extra-planar caster.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello, Upper_Krust!

Hey mate!

I'll stay Ashardalon for a while, but hopefully, my 'Knight Otu'-account will be open sometime this week.

Just don't go all schizophrenic on us!

More or less, but I'm done for the semester, and slowly, the marks are coming.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you mate!

Regarding supernatural armor, I've made my mind up and have come to the conclusion that it is a good idea - just add it as an optional rule, as you have already planned!

If I can't convince anyone that its a good idea then I must be explaining it incorrectly!?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: Re: Re: Re: NA again

Hey Simon!

The 'weatherbeaten skin' analysis makes no sense when you consider that ogres and lizardmen don't get this ability

Actually it does make sense up to 1 or 2 points as I mentioned.

Lizardmen have skin like chainmail already (NA +5).
Ogres actually do have leather-like weatherbeaten skin. Reverse engineering an Ogres NA +5 we see that an equivalent Medium-Size creature would have NA +2 (equal to Leather)

NA +2 x1.5 (Large) = 3 +2 = 5

- and just how tough can Red Sonja's skin be, anyway? It's silly - and if it were the case that barbarian skin got tougher by level they'd get an AC bonus, not damage reduction.

I agree. But I am working with the 'warts and all' of the Core Rules here!

Just posted this elsewhere:

Minimum Weight by STR

In the interests of credibility there's a limit to how non-magically strong an 80lb human can be. The following is a suggested table of absolute minimum character weight by STR, since lean muscle mass has a pretty consistent weight/power ratio. This should work fine for manlike humanoids, it may not work for halflings or gnomes (it wouldn't work for chimpanzees either). If a generated character has weight below these minima, simply raise their weight to the minimum given. Figures are derived from the PHB Encumbrance by STR table. Table can be ignored for magically augmented STR (eg Wishes).

STR Minimum weight
24-25 350 lb
22-23 270 lb
20-21 200 lb
18-19 150 lb
16-17 115 lb
14-15 88 lb
12-13 65 lb
10-11 50 lb
8-9 40 lb
6-7 30 lb
4-5 20 lb
2-3 10 lb

What do you think? Rem this applies only to nonmagical strength gained from humanlike muscle mass. I think it was inspired by a Xena episode where she beat a guy obviously vastly more muscular than her in a straight arm-wrestle.
Max human starting STR is 18, the implication is that eg a 20th level PC with natural STR 23 weighs at least 270 lbs. Also no 95 lb half-elf females with STR 18.

I like it!

 

[S'mon]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NA again

Ogres' leathery skin: I was taking it from a core rules perspective where their tough hide increases their AC not reduces damage, whereas Barbarians get to reduce damage. So the two are not intended to be the same, clearly.

Also, while being 'tough' may make your skin a little bit tougher, it can't compare to the processes involved in making cuirboulli: hard-boiled leather, the basic PHB +2 AC leather armour. Plus I hate the idea of all Barbarian characters looking like something out of the Texas Chainsaw massacre...

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: NA again

Hi Simon!

Plus I hate the idea of all Barbarian characters looking like something out of the Texas Chainsaw massacre...

Funnily enough Anthony Valterra (of WotC) mentioned the sort of Michael Myers Villain type in the forthcoming d20 Modern.

The interview was on ENWorld a week ago or so.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Can you smell what the Krust is cookin!?

Hello all!

In case you haven't checked todays ENWorld News they have an interview with Monte Cook:

http://www.d20reviews.com/Interviews/interviews_monte2.htm

Let me just highlight a few things for you...

Question posed by Morrus
Are there any 'sacred cows' of D&D (levels, classes, HP etc.) which you would personally have liked to eliminate when designing 3E? Why didn't you?

Monte Cooks answer
To really answer your question, though, there are indeed things we felt we shouldn't change because of game history that I wish we had changed. I wish that armor absorbed damage rather than making you harder to hit (I think the design would have to be a bit more complex than that, but that's the basic idea).

 

[Avatar of the North]

Again true, however what is to say such insects wouldn't be faster without this 'armour'!?

Here is why the insect wouldn't be faster without its armor. It would be dead. The armor of an insect is also it skeleton. Without its 'armor' it couldn't do simple function such as breathing let alon moving. All insects have Exoskeletons as opposed to humans that have endoskeletons. I also remember a small bit from biology class in high school (that has been long enough ago i wish could forget more of it, hehe) that some creatures with exoskeletons have joints constructed in ways that are just not terribly possible for creatures with endoskeletons (sorry can't remember specifics.)

This is why i'm against dex penalties to SOME creatures with natural armor.

Also who is to say that natural armor should make you look like a freak. I'm of the opinion that its nor nessisarily just the skin type that makes up the natural armor but also the composition of the muscle tissue, bones, and other things under the skin as well. Look at Wolverine with that adamantine skeleton of his. I for one think that should give him some amount of natural armor.