D&D 5E Thematic Differences Between Paladin (Green Knight/Oath of the Ancients) and Ranger

[Dragonhelm]

One of the subclasses that has intrigued me in 5e is the Oath of the Ancients paladin (Green Knight). I know the mechanical differences, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to differentiate them from a thematic role-playing POV.

They're both champions of nature, just in different ways. And really, I'm having a hard time thinking about who an iconic Green Knight might be.

Thoughts on how to play one?

 

[Minigiant]

The ranger is not the champion of nature.

The ranger is champion of the border between civilization and nature.

The Oath of Ancients paladins protect nature and kills their enemies.
The Ranger kills the monsters in nature so that civilization doesn't FREAK OUT AND BURN DOWN THE WHOLE DANG FOREST!!!

 

[Unwise]

Good question.

The Ranger need not be a champion of nature, in fact I think that most are not. There is no baked in sense of duty to the natural world or alignment with a particular god/nature spirit. The Ranger can be a bounty hunter, a trapper/hunter, a guide or simply a SAS-style-soldier who happens to do his job outdoors. Aragorn was a soldier doing a job of protecting civilization from the savages of the wilds. He was great at natural stuff, probably loved the great outdoors, but that is it. He did not go on about the natural order of things or dance with fey queens. A big game hunter is a ranger, a Mowhawk/Zulu/Inuit/Bedouin style warrior could be too. Many of them likely would never refer to themselves as rangers, just considering themselves typical warriors of their culture. Presumably, most rangers loves the great outdoors, but that is where it can end.

The Green Knight though is an actual imbued champion of a natural force. Normally a god or archfey has chosen them as a champion. They come with a baked in agenda, code and divine powers. In some ways, the comparison between the ranger and green knight is like the difference between a fighter and a paladin. The fighter may or may not be a champion of good working for a churches agenda, the Paladin definitely is and has holy powers to show for it.

It is the knightly aspect of it that I have issues reconciling. Why does a champion of nature wear platemail and not use a bow and sneak around. This has been fine in the two that I have seen, one was already a knight when he was chosen by the nature godess. The other was taken as a child by an archfey to be his emmissary in the human lands, so he is the knight of a lord, albiet a strange one.

 

[pukunui]

A paladin with the Oath of the Ancients isn't necessarily a champion of nature. They're actually more of a champion of people than nature. Look at the specifics of their oath: They're supposed to be merciful, kind, and forgiving. They're supposed to defend "good, beauty, love, and laughter". They're supposed to "delight in song and laughter, in beauty and art". Lastly, they're supposed to "be a glorious beacon for all who live in despair."

Their powers might come from nature, but they aren't necessarily about nature. They're about life, in all its forms. It would seem they're especially concerned with sentient life too, since they've sworn to defend art and music and drive away despair. You tend not to find those things in the natural world.

I think one of the best examples of a "green knight" would be Qui-Gon Jinn. I loosely based my current Ancients paladin PC on him, although there's also lots of Phryne Fisher in there too. She is beholden to no one - no archfey or deity. Her powers came from primordial times. She's all about enjoying life to the fullest, even to a slightly hedonistic degree.

 

[Umbran]

He did not go on about the natural order of things or dance with fey queens.

Point of fact: He did marry an elf princess. Just sayin'.

Why does a champion of nature wear platemail and not use a bow and sneak around.

Because "use a bow and sneak around" is what hunters do. But, the champion of nature (or a champion imbued with the power of nature) need not be a hunter.

 

[Dausuul]

The paladin is a spiritual warrior, whose powers come from religious devotion to life, nature, or a powerful fey.

The ranger is an expert hunter and scout, who has learned some fey-magic tricks. There's no religious element.

 

[Syunsuke]

I guess Green Knights are related to nature because their tradition is older than civilization. It's Oath of the Ancients!

 

[pukunui]

I guess Green Knights are related to nature because their tradition is older than civilization. It's Oath of the Ancients!

It's older than civilization and yet incorporates a number of civilized elements (such as art and music).

 

[Aurick]

A paladin with the Oath of the Ancients isn't necessarily a champion of nature. They're actually more of a champion of people than nature. Look at the specifics of their oath: They're supposed to be merciful, kind, and forgiving. They're supposed to defend "good, beauty, love, and laughter". They're supposed to "delight in song and laughter, in beauty and art". Lastly, they're supposed to "be a glorious beacon for all who live in despair."

Their powers might come from nature, but they aren't necessarily about nature. They're about life, in all its forms. It would seem they're especially concerned with sentient life too, since they've sworn to defend art and music and drive away despair. You tend not to find those things in the natural world.

I think one of the best examples of a "green knight" would be Qui-Gon Jinn. I loosely based my current Ancients paladin PC on him, although there's also lots of Phryne Fisher in there too. She is beholden to no one - no archfey or deity. Her powers came from primordial times. She's all about enjoying life to the fullest, even to a slightly hedonistic degree.

I think you bring up a great point. Oath of Ancient Paladins CAN be a militant spiritual nature guardian, but their oath does not mandate it. When I read the Ancient Oaths I think of Rand al'Thor towards the end of the Wheel of Time series...

(Wheel of Time Spoilers following)

It may be hard to explain to someone who hasn't read the series, but Rand is this powerful magical leader who had tried to harden himself mentally and physically to handle the grand destiny set before him, but it's towards the end of the series that he "remembers how to laugh" meaning that there is great power and beauty in enjoying the experience of life, song, laughter, and not taking the mantle of responsibility too seriously.

(End of Spoilers)

An Oath of Ancients Paladin can be the one who steps into battle with laughter on his lips as he stands in the gap between innocence and the dark and evil things in this world that threatens to corrupt or destroy it. They crack jokes, maybe play a musical instrument to brighten the parties spirit during a rest or a stay at the inn.

I like to play my Paladin as a larger-than-life Viking sort who wants to drink deeply from life and all that it has to offer and can face even the most dangerous of threats with genuine joy at the challenge and opportunity to live a great story for his people and those under his protection.

 

[pukunui]

An Oath of Ancients Paladin can be the one who steps into battle with laughter on his lips as he stands in the gap between innocence and the dark and evil things in this world that threatens to corrupt or destroy it. They crack jokes, maybe play a musical instrument to brighten the parties spirit during a rest or a stay at the inn.

I like to play my Paladin as a larger-than-life Viking sort who wants to drink deeply from life and all that it has to offer and can face even the most dangerous of threats with genuine joy at the challenge and opportunity to live a great story for his people and those under his protection.

Exactly!

Porthos from The Three Musketeers might be another good example.

My Ancients paladin gambles, drinks (she even drank the dwarf cleric under the table!), has one night stands (yay for immunity to disease!), and she enjoys every minute of it. She's immune to fear, so she laughs in the face of death. I also gave my paladin the Inspiring Leader feat to play on that aspect: she's always singing songs and telling stories that inspire her friends to greater things.

I had considered MCing her with bard too, but I ended up just going with paladin, although I did take a level of fighter for an extra fighting style.