Theocracies, Priests, and Divine Might

[SHARK]

Greetings!

It seems to me that Clerics have great potential, not just in the immediate adventuring role, but in between adventures, and even esconced in the towns and cities of the kingdom. Clerics can in many ways, build upon society in similar ways to the powerful wizards, and in any wizard's orders that they happen to organize.

Clerics are often charismatic, and have supreme divine powers to raise up or bring down those throughout the community, and beyond. How have Clerics, and their various religions influenced the larger campaign world in significant ways?

Are new doctrines introduced? Are there any controversial theological debates going on? Have some clerics discovered new burial tombs or lost knowledge? Perhaps there are heresies spreading! Have clerics impacted the local population's survivability, lifespan, and comfort? What kinds of political effects do you think powerful religions should have? What role do persecution of the Heretic play in the eyes of the pious? Are their any great social projects that clerics or one particular religion in your campaign is working on?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[SHARK]

*BUMP*

 

[Rashak Mani]

hhmmm nope ? They are too busy scouring dungeons for gold... I mean XPs... sorry I mean fighting evil...

I agree that in general Clerics should have greater influence... but in general they are temple bound.

 

[Reynard]

The problem with the cleric PC as a religous leader is that other PCs won't give a damn. Really. While it is always fun, and a good idea, to give each player equal time for their character's own goals and developement, things like missionary work, temple construction and oversight, and theorcratic manipulation take a lot of time, more so, say, than a wizard researching a new spell. Now, if your whole group is made up of "builder" PCs (a fighter who wants a stronghold, a mage who wants to form a school, a theif who wants to run the guild, a cleric who wants to create a temple of shake up his religion a la Martin Luther) then it is okay -- a lot of that stuff could either be worked together or dealt with in the occassional "sit around and chat" session. But if only one PC is interested in such things, the DM has to deal with it out of game (emails, whatever) which increases the workload. And no one but the cleric and the DM are likley to notice, anyway.

Of course, religous strife makes a great campaign backdrop. A whole party dedicated to a particular faith, or its downfall or "renovation", could easily allow the cleric to do such things without detracting from everyone else's time-- after all, what the cleic does has a great impact on everyone, and those other PCs are likely to be, at the very least, trusted aids to the cleric.

 

[William Ronald]

Even if the other PCs treat the party cleric as just another person, NPCs may behave differently. Commoners and nobles may treat the cleric with great respect, and ask him for advice as well as blessings and aid.

Also, in a world where there is definitive proof that the gods exists, organized religions may have a strong role in influencing governments of any sort. They may seek to advise the leaders, or even be the leaders.

Also, in many ancient cultures the king was either a living god or a priestly representatives of the gods. Egypt is a case in point for the former, and Sumer and Babylon embodied the latter. The power of the king was believed to be connected to the gods. Certain rituals and taboos may be kept to please the gods. If they are ignored, disaster can befall the land.

Also, different religions may be opposed to each other despite similar teachings and origins. One religion may view itself as superceding previous teachings, requiring all efforts to be taken to convert others.

Also, a country may be heavily dominated by a religion and a deep sense of spirituality and tolerance. Tibet, before the Dalai Lama fled, would be a relatively recent example of this.

SHARK, good topic. Sorry if I haven't been replying to your threads more often. (I have been busy in the In Character forum with Edena of Neith's Industrial Revolution on Greyhawk. I am one of the good guys.)

 

[LostSoul]

I think that before you can develop Clerical orders, you have to ask where the Gods (that the Clerics get thier powers from) get thier powers.

If the God's power comes from its domain - nature, evil, war - then the Cleric's goal would be to further the domain. Clerics of War Gods might want to cause warfare all over the world. Clerics of Knowledge Gods might want to spread knowledge about the world.

If the God's power comes from worshippers, then the Clerics will want to convert everyone. They will use thier powers to help thier flock and to convert people.

There are other possible source of power for Gods as well.

I think that once you answer this question, Clerical orders will write themselves.

 

[SHARK]

William My Friend!

Greetings!

I've missed you William! Thanks to everyone here. Some interesting thoughts.

I think that there would be many religious wars. I know, some have said, "Well, in polytheistic cultures, they're more tolerant." Thus, neatly obviating any "religious intolerance." Eh, I don't think so. The environment becomes neatly politically correct then. Forget that! Even in history, people were killing each other long before the ascension of Christianity. Different religious cults were persecuted all the time. So, there's lots of room for religious wars even in "polytheistic cultures." Think about the Romans extermination of various eastern mystery cults in Rome during the Republican periods, as well as the campaign orchestrated against Egypt at the time of Caesar shacking up with Cleopatra, and Anthony's subsequent ennamorment with Egypt, and with Octavian's--and all of Rome's abhorrence for the "religions from the east." Also see Rome's extermination of Celtic Druidism. African tribes conquest of different tribes who believed differently; see also the different wars in the Middle-East where tribes and kingdoms often fought, and destroyed each other's kingdoms, and temples in particular, as well as restricting or forbidding the cult from existing, and so on.

Think also about how clerics and their powerful magic can influence society. Fanatical orders of devout warriors wouldn't be rare, but more common. Imagine different hospitals sponsored by various religions. Imagine different religions, while friendly, might still fiercely compete with each other over who can heal the most in a given time period; who can cure the most disease; who can help the masses rise up in health and strength. Imagine the rewards bestowed by a grateful government for such awesome help by the different accepted religions in the kingdom.

There are so many possibilities!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Falcon]

Your conclsian being..?

 

[Piratecat]

I tend to agree that the effect of the churches on society is dramatically underplayed in most games. In most religious groups (and I have to think, in ALL groups where the presence of the God is everywhere and where people KNOW the God exists) the word of the cleric to a believer would be close to law. Damning a person's immortal soul to hell or being excommunicated was a terrifying prospect.

As a result, historically churches had IMMENSE political power. They had their own courts, they had their own military, and they controlled governments by telling the King that he would be damned if he didn't follow their recommendations. This immediately suggests some interesting plot twists.

 

[Henry]

As a result, historically churches had IMMENSE political power. They had their own courts, they had their own military, and they controlled governments by telling the King that he would be damned if he didn't follow their recommendations. This immediately suggests some interesting plot twists.

By the same token, I would downplay heretical doctrines in a religion with an active deity. Heresies would likely be stamped out by the deities themselves. Think about it - the heretics would likely either be denied high-level spells, or be stricken dead.

Think about biblical references - Anyone remember Ananias and Sapphira from the Book of Acts? They didn't even have heretical ideas - they just lied directly to the Holy Spirit, and were struck dead on the spot! I wish we had a method like that in court! Gives that whole "swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, so help me God" etc. a whole new meaning, doesn't it?