Theurge-Smacking Goodness

[Fenes 2]

It doesn't suggest to you that the spell that grants +10 to a skill check is what is overpowered instead? Eagle's Splendour is available to a caster anyway. What makes it so dangerous for the MT to have this spell available?

Hey, IMC that spell is banned - but in my campaign, treasure is much lower than in "standard" D&D, magic items are rare, advancement slow, and players prefer social situations over combats even when the party is leading an army on a campaign to free a city occupied by a horde of humanoid monsters.

And, as I have said, the sheer number of buffs available for social and other non-combat situations makes the MT overpowered for my campaign.

 

[green slime]

Aha!

Well, I too have banned that particular spell, and reduced the skill bonus boost of magical items. But otherwise retained most buffs as are.

I do not fear the MT as the powergamer in my group is a fighter type...

 

[Allister]

Um, isn't the standard point buy at 25 pts? 32 is pretty damn high and will make a HUGE difference.

 

[Plane Sailing]

How does this spell combo grab you (quickest from a cleric skewed MTh, but achievable by any)

Round 1 - Solid Fog. No save, no spell resistance, move cut to 1/10th so they are not going to be getting out of the 30ft radius very quickly. (4th arcane spell). If you've got a move of 30ft it is going to take at least 3r to get out even if "running" (12ft per round)

Round 2 - Blade Barrier. Clr6th. The Reflex ST to negate the damage when it starts is not going to be possible to most targets because they can't leave the area quickly enough (due to the arcane solid fog).

For extra fun, try hitting them with Slow first, or putting a wall of force around the outside of the solid fog etc.

I'm sure there are plenty of horrible synergies that can be brought together with the use of things such as Spectral Hand and Harm, Spell Resistance, Spell Immunity + a couple of great wizard spells (stinking cloud would be a great choice)

 

[Technik4]

Revision

I revised the rules of making a theurge-smackdown.

Planesailing:

The solid fog+blade barrier is good but blade barrier still allows for SR. Also, the counter for most fogs is a strong wind; barring that most enemies have enough mobility to fly/dimension door/teleport away. I think it has good synergy, but due to blade barrier being a full round casting time its a little hindered as the theurge will cast the fog on round 1 and the blades wont take effect till round 3.

The other combos mentioned (and the one above) can be done better by 2 dedicated casters working in concert, especially with their initiatives timed together, it would be devastating.

Spectral Hand + Harm did send a shiver up my spine though

Technik

 

[Quixon]

Re: Revision

Spectral Hand + Harm did send a shiver up my spine though

Technik

Nah your safe from that-Spectral Hand only allows you use spells up to 4th level, so no Spectral Hand+Harm.

 

[Cedric]

I was thinking that the clr3, wiz3, mt10, Arch Mage 4 would be pretty ugly. Especially with the Arch Mage one that allows you to use touch attacks at a 30 foot range.

Cedric

 

[kenjib]

Re: Revision

The other combos mentioned (and the one above) can be done better by 2 dedicated casters working in concert, especially with their initiatives timed together, it would be devastating.

So part of your defense is that the Mystic Theurge is not singly as effective as two characters?

 

[Oni]

Re: Re: Revision

Nah your safe from that-Spectral Hand only allows you use spells up to 4th level, so no Spectral Hand+Harm.

However you could channel quite a number of spontaniously cast inflict spells through it from a safe distance. Poison is another good choice.

[edit: if you feel like being a team player, this also works well with cures.]

 

[Technik4]

kenjib:

I knew someone was going to say that. No, I'm saying that the combo is most powerful (broken/overpowered/etc) when it is done by 2 seperate casters. While 1 caster can do it, it reduces the effectiveness of the combo to the point where its a good tactic, but its not going to hose any encounters. Hence, its another reason the Myt is NOT overpowered.

Cedric:

Don't forget the pre-reqs for Archmage. For a single-classed wizard who has backup feats its not as big of a deal, but for the MyT (who is going probably want some metamagic feats because of the sheer number of slots, item creation because of their breadth of power, and the usual spell penetration, spell focus...) they are giving up a lot for that particular combo.

Oni:

While spectral hand + inflict is a good combo, take a look at the levels it is being utilized.

Clr3/Wiz3/Myt2

This gives us a 3d8+5 inflict (or cure), which if used via spectral hand (uses another round of combat to cast the hand) is pretty darned handy.

Of course a Clr8 can cast a 4d8+8 inflict using the turns-a-touch-to-a-ray feat or by just getting up close (having the hp and whatnot).

And a Wiz8 could cast the same spectral hand and then cast a vampiric touch for 4d6, gaining some temporary hp in the process. (Our Myt could also cast a Vamp Touch, but it would only be for 2d6 as it goes up per 2 caster levels).

So is the Myt overpowered or just handy? (in this scenario)

Technik