They killed my abbrasive, quarrelsome, violent NPC that I loved so much

[Quasqueton]

One of the things that interests me is the use of the intimidate skill you mention several times. Now I can see using it for game effects, like shaken, but I don't think I'd expect most character to follow on role playing skills vs players. It's like player vs player checks.

Now if she's standing tall and trying to be intimidating, that's one thing, but rolling the dice to see if she intimidates the player characters is another.

DM: "She starts for the door but stops, apparently expecting you to step out of her way."

Player: "I look to either side of me, noticing that she can easily walk around me."

DM: "She glares at you, eyes narrow. She shifts so her hand is not-so-subtly close to the hilt of her rapier. She's waiting for you to take the hint. Roll your check against her Intimidate. She gets a 22."

Player: d20, plus level, plus Will mod, plus fear mod. . . "I get a 15."

DM: "She gets a dangerous curl to her lips, as if she's seriously considering just stabbing you where you stand."

Now, the Player can role play out the skill check: "I cautiously step aside and let her pass." Maybe he adds a snide comment, once she's out of earshot.

Or the Player can be bullheaded and refuse to role play: "I stare her down, daring her to draw her weapon. 'You want a piece of me?'"

I believe most good role players would play along with the dice results. On the extreme, you could get Players refusing to run away when they fail a save vs. cause fear. That's just a die roll too.

Quasqueton

 

[Arnwyn]

I think we'd have killed her when she stabbed the monk. Assuming she didn't deal non-lethal damage. We take people trying to kill us pretty seriously, on the whole.

Yes indeed. My PCs usually take the attitude of "take a swing at me (lethal damage), and you're finished".

 

[Vaxalon]

One of the things that interests me is the use of the intimidate skill you mention several times. Now I can see using it for game effects, like shaken, but I don't think I'd expect most character to follow on role playing skills vs players. It's like player vs player checks.

Now if she's standing tall and trying to be intimidating, that's one thing, but rolling the dice to see if she intimidates the player characters is another.

I have to say, this may have figured prominently in the death of the NPC. Not only was she murderous, she was manipulative and nothing gets a player's hackles up like deprotagonization.

 

[VirgilCaine]

I doubt any of my players would have let her live after the incident with the monk. She would have been bound, weighted and thrown in the ocean I would imagine.


The Seraph of Earth and Stone

Or killed in her sleep.

 

[Storm Raven]

I believe most good role players would play along with the dice results.

I believe that you are foolish to hold such an expectation. Intimidate is not a magical fear effect. Out of combat it merely makes those Intimidated behave in a friendly manner temporarily (read the description). Most people who are "friendly" expect their "friends" to walk around them when they obviously can without danger or serious inconvenience.

 

[Quasqueton]

Just in case it didn't come across in my opening post: I don't blame the Player/PCs for taking her down. She sure as hell was asking for it. But that's sort of why I liked her so much

And like I said, when she took the poke at the dwarf monk, the group was not yet a party. They were just all fellow passengers on a ship, with no ties to each other. The dwarf was probably smart to retreat from the fight, because her first sneak attack damage hurt the 2nd-level monk badly. Plus they ended up needing all the fighting help they could get when they moved on the pirates/slavers on their ship.

When she took the poke at the sorceress, they were a party with weeks of adventuring experience together. And they, like all of you said, took her down, with prejudice.

Quasqueton

 

[Quasqueton]

I believe that you are foolish to hold such an expectation. Intimidate is not a magical fear effect. Out of combat it merely makes those Intimidated behave in a friendly manner temporarily (read the description). Most people who are "friendly" expect their "friends" to walk around them when they obviously can without danger or serious inconvenience.

I have read the description, but thank you for the suggestion. </sarcasm>

You would not step out of a friend's way as she walked out of the room? You expect your friends to maneuver around your oh so important person?

And you seriously think that an intimidated person would not step out of the way of the intimidater?

Quasqueton

 

[Felix]

Out of combat it merely makes those Intimidated behave in a friendly manner temporarily (read the description). Most people who are "friendly" expect their "friends" to walk around them when they obviously can without danger or serious inconvenience.

Indeed, friends would expect them to walk around... and I imagine that's what Diplomacy would do... that skill actually shifts attitudes. Intimidate just makes them act in that manner... it makes them compliant. But it doesn't make them your friend. So yeah, someone who was intimidated would get out of the way of the intimidator because they're now compliant.

But I don't know that I would let an NPC intimidate a PC... maybe make the roll and tell the PC the results and, like you said, allow them to roleplay; I wouldn't force actions on them if they didn't want to make them though.

 

[Quasqueton]

But I don't know that I would let an NPC intimidate a PC... maybe make the roll and tell the PC the results and, like you said, allow them to roleplay; I wouldn't force actions on them if they didn't want to make them though.

Would you not "force" the PC to run away if he failed a save vs. cause fear?

I definitely don't/wouldn't "force" a PC to take an action the Player didn't want. I do, however, expect the Player to role play the PC within the game world. I expect them to react favorably to a mage who just charmed them, and I expect them to react favorably to a cleric who just diplomacized them. This does not take the character's actions out of the Players hands, but rather gives them something to role play with/to.

Quasqueton

 

[Storm Raven]

I have read the description, but thank you for the suggestion. </sarcasm>

You appear to think it is somehow similar to a magical fear effect though, which seems to indicate you should look at it more carefully.

You would not step out of a friend's way as she walked out of the room? You expect your friends to maneuver around your oh so important person?

I might, if they asked. If they walked up and threatened me, I probably would not be so polite.

And you seriously think that an intimidated person would not step out of the way of the intimidater?

Trying to push people around frequently just annoys them, rather than making them happy to do what you want. Intimidation is the puffing up of your apparent threat to a level that makes the target believe that not doing what you want will result in serious harm or death. The PC knows to a decent degree what this NPC is capable of, and has several other friends in the room he can rely upon to help him out if the swashbuckler starts a fight over who gets to walk around someone else. This makes Intimidate a less than useful skill in these circumstances.