"They told me it was something else."

So, in a world with drugs, alcohol and teen sex as major problems, parents set an example by... giving in to peer pressure! Excellent!

Yes, well, sex, drugs, and alcohol were all around when they were kids so that's all familiar territory. RPGs, D&D specifically? That was relatively new. Honestly, you saw similar reactions with Elvis and his pelvis and rock and roll. You can't escape people who want to react badly to things. Best you can do is hold them accountable for the dumb things they say and do.
 

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True story that I have never shared...

The scare did get to me personally, but it was not my parents. Of all things...it was the radio. One day I was listening to the radio and some talk show was discussing D&D and how it was the stuff of the devil. People were calling in and agreeing with them. I heard no arguments to the contrary.

Angry, I heard the number and wrote it down and decided to confront them. I was probably 17 at the time and had never called in on a talk show. I called them and said that I have the D&D game and that...

The speaker interrupted immediately and asked me if I had the game close by. My 1st Ed. DM was right by me, so I said yes. At this point, I was intimidated (failed my check). Here was me, just a big kid, talking with these talk show people. I lost focus. Then they proceeded to scare the pants off of me. First they prayed for me on the air, and then suggested I tear up the my books immediately. They said I was under the Devil's influence and I didn't know it. Looking at the demon (err, Efreet) on the cover chilled me to the bone. I promptly tore up the book and was praised for it. For a short time, I felt good.

A few days later, I felt differently.
 

I'm bumping this just so everyone can read Caudor's story.

Also, I recall some people complaining in previous threads about the extent to which Wizards chose to dial back the sexy demonism in DnD books, in response to religious concerns. But from some of the posts in this thread, it seem that move was largely good. Why embellish something that's already tricky to explain to outsiders with unnecessarily controversial trappings?
 

Also, I recall some people complaining in previous threads about the extent to which Wizards chose to dial back the sexy demonism in DnD books, in response to religious concerns. But from some of the posts in this thread, it seem that move was largely good. Why embellish something that's already tricky to explain to outsiders with unnecessarily controversial trappings?

I hold a minority position on the boards. Based on past threads, the majority position has been that the 'RPG scare' was good for the game because it provided it free publicity and increased the number of people who wanted to play simply because it was something that parents didn't want you to do.

I disagree with that assessment. I believe that the 'RPG scare' and the general naivity that management at TSR had about marketting their product which greatly contributed to the scare may have in the short term boosted sales of the product, but it also directly led to the boom-bust cycle that was the early fad years of the game. Had there not been an 'RPG scare', the value of 'Dungeons and Dragons' as a brand and as intellectual property would have been many times what it was and now is. It's the RPG scare that directly led to the demise of what could have been a lucrative secondary market in toys, cartoons, movies, and so forth. Gygax wasn't completely off base in trying to capitalize on the secondary market, but because of the negative perceptions of the brand those efforts were basically doomed. Kids may have played D&D because parents forbid it, but advertisers didn't buy spot time on cartoons with negative brand perceptions and they didn't buy toys for their kids. Because of the RPG scare, parents stopped buying D&D coloring books, D&D choose you own adventure paper backs, and so forth. I know these things as fact because I've heard these stories again and again and again. Because of the D&D scare, aunts and uncles didn't give D&D books to kids for Christmas, and the market depended largely on the incomes of teenagers and college students independent of their parents larger resources. Because the secondary market failed, when massive intellectual product successes like 'Dragonlance' rolled around, this didn't immediately translate into anything but novel sales and never will translate into anything but that.

It caused MASSIVE damage to the brand, and because the managers at TSR didn't realize that - and indeed I think naively welcomed the negative publicity - and were slow to respond to it, it's amazing the hobby survived as well as it did. Honestly, I think Tracy Hickman may have saved the hobby. He's in my opinion almost as important to the hobby as Gygax and Arneson, not only because he's one of the best module writers of all time, and not only because of his collaboration with Weiss, but because he seems to be the one figure at TSR who really got it and realized something had to be done and who was able to empathize with the criticism to some extent instead of just dismissing it.
 


That's one hell of a claim.

Ha ha.

Seriously, I know that there is no way to ever prove that, and that there is nothing factual about a 'what if' scenario. There is simply no way to know.

But that was the perception I formed at the time, and it's a perception borne out in my opinion by the relative differences in the market value between D&D and other childhood artifacts of the time like Transformers, GI Joe, the Marvel Comic Universe, Mario, and so forth. Arguably the Smurfs and Monopoly have more value as IP than D&D does. The RPG scare made the property toxic, and so D&D was never able to capitalize on its fad status or the widespread popularity (or at least familiarity) it enjoyed.

The contrary position IMO requires you to believe that anyone who wanted to lift the sales of their brand would just equate the brand with Satanism, drug use, and teen suicide. I mean, why doesn't WotC adopt that as a marketing strategy?
 

I don't think you can separate fear of D&D from fear of those things.

No. So I would expect parents to educate themselves about all of them. I'm even-handed, in that regard.

You can't escape people who want to react badly to things. Best you can do is hold them accountable for the dumb things they say and do.

Yes, and that's kind of my point. I'm not cutting slack for people being dumb (without a specific extenuating circumstance).
 

The RPG scare made the property toxic, and so D&D was never able to capitalize on its fad status or the widespread popularity (or at least familiarity) it enjoyed.

As I understand the history, the fad status and widespread popularity was created in large part due to the scare. Without the scare, they'd not have had much to capitalize upon.

With the scare, the growth was limited. Without the scare, the growth would have been limited. Sounds like a no-win scenario.
 

As I understand the history, the fad status and widespread popularity was created in large part due to the scare. Without the scare, they'd not have had much to capitalize upon.

With the scare, the growth was limited. Without the scare, the growth would have been limited. Sounds like a no-win scenario.

I know there are a lot of people who say things like that, but does anybody have anything resembling data? Personally, I have always taken that assertion with a hefty dash of salt. Would the boxed sets have ended up in toy stores if the buzz was being generated by the Egbert and devil-worshipping controversies? Would parents have been buying them for their teens and 'tweens based on those controversies?
 

I know there are a lot of people who say things like that, but does anybody have anything resembling data?

I think we have a chicken and egg problem here. The period of D&D's most rapid growth also was the period when the D&D scare first began, but like you, I don't find correlation here to indicate causation. It's just as easy - and in my opinion easier - to argue that the scare is being fed by D&D's rapid growth.

B.A.D.D. did not even come into existance until 1982, the same year we get 'Mazes and Monsters'. Pat Robertson isn't really making a big issue of it until like 1983. Jack Chick publishes his infamous tract in 1984. The 60 Minutes expose on it that is arguably the height of the scare was in 1985. The argument that D&D needed a bunch of negative publicity by 1985 in order to increase its brand awareness strikes me as really odd. By that time, it had already been featured as a major plot point in 'ET: The Extra Terrestial' (then and still one of the biggest selling movies of all time), and had its own cartoon show and line of toys.

Not only that, but the argument doesn't correspond to my perception of events through that period, nor does it jive with the average ages given by players at EnWorld and elsewhere who said that they started playing D&D with the red box during the 1979-1983 period (still a huge percentage of EnWorld). In my experience, D&D was already booming in the 1980-1982 period while the scare wasn't even a hardly a media murmor and it was booming precisely among elementary and junior high kids who were dependent on parents monetary support for their hobby. The informal survey data at EnWorld supports that perception. And my experience is that its precisely as the scare really begins to roll in the 1982-1986 period that you start to see that support being removed, start seeing authority figures suppressing the game, peers being reluctant to get involved, and the previously booming secondary market for D&D suddenly disappear.
 
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