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Thief seems overpowered to this new/old DM

Having just run a 30th level game, I will firmly say that I love strikers, because they just hurt bad guys. At high-enough levels Defenders, Controllers, and Leaders embarrass bad guys by making them incapable of actually doing anything.

Given the choice between having my super villain take 90 damage every turn or having it be knocked prone and dazed every turn, I'll take the former.
 

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Dice4Hire

First Post
Overall, I think the rogue is a bit overpowered in Essentials, especially with how easy it is to play. For new player it is pretty obvious how to play it, and play it well. But I do not think it is a problem.

If the Rogue is being too good, add minions. Especially minions with a bit of range and ones that aim more at him. Rogues do not like minions much at all.
 

Droogie128

First Post
Overall, I think the rogue is a bit overpowered in Essentials, especially with how easy it is to play. For new player it is pretty obvious how to play it, and play it well. But I do not think it is a problem.

If the Rogue is being too good, add minions. Especially minions with a bit of range and ones that aim more at him. Rogues do not like minions much at all.

Eh, it still loses access to Daggermaster, which is still the strongest Rogue PP. :)

Overall, the Thief is fine. It trades burst damage for consistency and surviveability. E-strikers as a whole greatly suffer from lack of burst damage in heroic.
 
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Saeviomagy

Adventurer
If monsters break marks, the defenders will do every single bit as much damage as the striker does. And if they don't, then a sizeable chunk of the damage the striker does can be attributed to the defenders.

If the mage hits 3 monsters with an AOE, chances are he equals the striker. If he stuns a monster (or otherwise stops it from being effective for a round), he's effectively done one round of striker damage to the creature: it's like it died one round earlier.

If the shaman (I'm not sure what type - one of them gives significant damage boosts) is soaking damage and healing people, then you can bet that there's plenty of damage that wouldn't get done without him.

I think people just have to get over this idea that direct damage caused is a good metric to measure most characters by.
 



BobTheNob

First Post
To OP. One of the issues our group had transitioning to 4e was to lose the pre-4e mindset. In pre-4e there was only really one great measure of success...damage! A single identifier of whether you had an on-par (OP) character (disclaimer : Might not be that extreme, just my experience with pre 4e). Its easy to recognize good damage.

Once 4e came out, character had roles. You have introduced the first striker the the group whose role IS to cause lots of damage. One of the challenges your non-striker characters now have is to recognize non-damage contribution for its worth.

We have a level 21 party.
The tank can lock down near any number of monsters. He does (relatively) bugger-all damage, but he is super-hardy and takes great pride in filling his role. He doesnt care about his damage output, he knows when monster are attacking him, he is wasting their time and doing his job.
The warlord has multiple heals, multiple groups heals and even more utilities to aid tactical deployment, initiative and buff up action point rounds. Does pitiful damage, but the player still regards this character as the best he has ever played in any RPG (and I have been with this group for 20 yrs)
The mage (who admittedly does very good damage, darn bloodmages) in one battle blunted 2 charges from 2 separate directions in one round, then in the next round proceed to stun 3 lvl 21 demons. Major contribution = party fought 1 or 2 creatures at a time...not 15!!

Just have the monster focus fire on your thieif, then watch the tanks have to draw it away, the leaders to have to heal him back and the controllers to bring an end to the barrage, and they will figure it out.

(p.s. Our party strikers are regularly doing 100-200 pts per round at lvl 21, for which I congratulate them, just as I congratulate the non-strikers for a job well done)
 

DracoSuave

First Post
Well if you think the thief is rediculous, you can always have him go into another class to 'balance it out.'

You could try a PHB1 ranger.

Yes.

Then you'll have perspective and you'll beg him to take back his thief.
 

DJINNIMAN

First Post
Thanks everyone for your advice. It's early in the campaign so I wanted to head off any player jealousy if possible. I'll explain the roles to the group, and will make sure I feature the unique strengths of each class more regularly. Everyone deserves a chance to shine, after all, in a game such as this.

I look forward to learning much on this board!
 

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