D&D 5E thief used his invisibility HIDDING

[Pvt. Winslow]

Yeah, those sound good. The classic one is walking in a dusty area and leaving footprints behind or an area filled with unavoidable broken glass that cracks underfoot. You're still invisible with all the benefits that come with it, but creatures know more or less where you are.

Yeah, I definitely see those. I admit at first when I read your comment I thought about a player feeling hosed if they auto-failed, but in coming up with examples and thinking about it, I think I see your point. It would just require tactical thinking on a player's part to know when using Invisibility isn't as beneficial as it otherwise could be. Plus, it gives characters some tricks to use when dealing with invisible foes if they don't have easy access to Truesight, See Invisible, or other means. I'm going to have to remember the next time I fight some invisible monsters to check for a river I can fight them in.

 

[GlobeOfDankness]

2) WHY NOT ???

WHY ARE WE YELLING?

if you look up the rules for hiding, they specify that you need to have heavy obscurement to hide (which invisibility grants) so since he has the ring, he can activate it to automatically cover all the requirements to hide and then use his thief's bonus action to roll a stealth check.

 

[pming]

Hiya.

WHY ARE WE YELLING?

if you look up the rules for hiding, they specify that you need to have heavy obscurement to hide...

No. It doesn't. If you are seeing something I'm not, where?

...(which invisibility grants) so since he has the ring, he can activate it to automatically cover all the requirements to hide...

There really is only one requirement...nobody can be looking at you (kind of like Invisible Boy from the Mystery Men movie/comic); as long as nobody sees you, you're good to go. And, seeing as he's invisible, nobody can see him.

... and then use his thief's bonus action to roll a stealth check.

Yup. He can use Cunning Action on his own turn, as his bonus action, to Hide.

***WARNING!! SEMI-RANT BELOW!!!***









This ol' chestnut... *again*!?

Dudes and Dude'etts, it's really simple. Roleplay the situation first. Think about it. Imagine it. Now, if the situation makes sense that he could "hide", then he can at least try. If it doesn't, then this is all moot because any DM (and player) worth his salt would (one would hope) be smart enough to realize that and nix the whole "hiding" thing right then and there. It's a ROLEPLAYING game for cryin' out loud! It's not rocket science. It's not a court hearing. It's not marital vows. Hell, it's not even a *boardgame*. An RPG, and 5e is no exception, is a set of GUIDELINES for how to run a game set in your imagination with your imagination as the limits, presented in a book as rules.

I know some groups are really into the whole RAW-as-Gospel thing, but for those groups, as I said when 5e just came out (PDF Basic)...maybe 5e isn't for them. Just like if I wanted a realistic, heavy-historical based game I wouldn't choose 5e. If I was looking for a crazy, fast-playing, quick post apocalyptic game, I wouldn't choose Living Steel.

*phew!* I feel better now. Thanks for listening, and sorry if I offended anyone.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[GlobeOfDankness]

Hiya.



No. It doesn't. If you are seeing something I'm not, where?




There really is only one requirement...nobody can be looking at you (kind of like Invisible Boy from the Mystery Men movie/comic); as long as nobody sees you, you're good to go. And, seeing as he's invisible, nobody can see him.



Yup. He can use Cunning Action on his own turn, as his bonus action, to Hide.

***WARNING!! SEMI-RANT BELOW!!!***









This ol' chestnut... *again*!?

Dudes and Dude'etts, it's really simple. Roleplay the situation first. Think about it. Imagine it. Now, if the situation makes sense that he could "hide", then he can at least try. If it doesn't, then this is all moot because any DM (and player) worth his salt would (one would hope) be smart enough to realize that and nix the whole "hiding" thing right then and there. It's a ROLEPLAYING game for cryin' out loud! It's not rocket science. It's not a court hearing. It's not marital vows. Hell, it's not even a *boardgame*. An RPG, and 5e is no exception, is a set of GUIDELINES for how to run a game set in your imagination with your imagination as the limits, presented in a book as rules.

I know some groups are really into the whole RAW-as-Gospel thing, but for those groups, as I said when 5e just came out (PDF Basic)...maybe 5e isn't for them. Just like if I wanted a realistic, heavy-historical based game I wouldn't choose 5e. If I was looking for a crazy, fast-playing, quick post apocalyptic game, I wouldn't choose Living Steel.

*phew!* I feel better now. Thanks for listening, and sorry if I offended anyone.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

heavy obscurement means nobody can see you, thus granting you the requirements to hide.

edit: looked it up, there's is no difference between saying you need heavy obscurement and saying you can't be in view.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

heavy obscurement means nobody can see you, thus granting you the requirements to hide.

edit: looked it up, there's is no difference between saying you need heavy obscurement and saying you can't be in view.

...if they can't see you, you don't have to hide...they can't see you. They may have an idea where you are, but, like spells, "I target, y'know...that guy...the one that's kinda over there...'ish...." isn't gonna cut it when someone wants to "target" someone who he can't see.

This is now getting into the "splitting hairs" part of Hiding. The Hiding (and Stealth rules in general) of 5e are, IMHO, rules that fall heavily onto the side of RAI in the RAW vs. RAI balance. Again, IMHO, the RAW of Hiding is basically saying "The Rule as Written is the one you and your group Interpret it to be". I'm cool with that.

Where did you look up the obscurement thing? The only thing I can find is the info side-bar "Hiding" on PHB pg 177. The bit about obscurement is in Chapter 8, pg 192 or something. Where is this rule that says "you have to have obscurement to hide"?

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Paraxis]

Invisibility is what allows you to try and hide using a Dexterity(stealth) roll as an action.

So if you become invisible and don't hide, everyone still knows exactly where you are. Attacks against you just have disadvantage, but they know you are there because you have taken no action to hide your tracks, sounds, or other clues that give away position.

Example fighter standing in room and activates a ring of invisibility as his action, then moves to the corner. Everyone can still tell exactly where the fighter is because he never took the "hide" action, they target him and attacks against him have disadvantage.

Example rogue standing in room and activates a ring of invisibility as his action, then moves to the corner, and uses his cunning action to take the "hide" action, now you compare his stealth roll to the passive perceptions of everyone else in the room if he rolls higher than all but 1 of them those guys can't see him, that 1 enemy can attack him with disadvantage. The other enemies need to make perception checks to locate the rogue on their turns.

 

[GlobeOfDankness]

Hiya!



...if they can't see you, you don't have to hide...they can't see you. They may have an idea where you are, but, like spells, "I target, y'know...that guy...the one that's kinda over there...'ish...." isn't gonna cut it when someone wants to "target" someone who he can't see.

This is now getting into the "splitting hairs" part of Hiding. The Hiding (and Stealth rules in general) of 5e are, IMHO, rules that fall heavily onto the side of RAI in the RAW vs. RAI balance. Again, IMHO, the RAW of Hiding is basically saying "The Rule as Written is the one you and your group Interpret it to be". I'm cool with that.

Where did you look up the obscurement thing? The only thing I can find is the info side-bar "Hiding" on PHB pg 177. The bit about obscurement is in Chapter 8, pg 192 or something. Where is this rule that says "you have to have obscurement to hide"?

^_^

Paul L. Ming

that sidebar is where i'm getting the idea from. it's not an explicit condition requirement, but the shoe does fit. any situation where you'd be able to hide (people can't see you) would technically fall under the description of heavy obscurement (the enemy is blind to your position). also, imagine the scene in jurrasic park where the hacker girl is trying to not get eaten by dinosaurs in the kitchen. they can't see her but she still needs to take steps to stay under their radar as it were.

 

[iserith]

WHY ARE WE YELLING?if you look up the rules for hiding, they specify that you need to have heavy obscurement to hide (which invisibility grants) so since he has the ring, he can activate it to automatically cover all the requirements to hide and then use his thief's bonus action to roll a stealth check.

Invisibility is what allows you to try and hide using a Dexterity(stealth) roll as an action.

Just to be clear, invisibility allows you to try to hide because others cannot see you. It doesn't give you permission to roll a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Only the DM can say whether you may roll an ability check or not and that's when the DM feels what the player described he or she wanted to do has an uncertain outcome and a chance of failure.

 

[Paraxis]

Just to be clear, invisibility allows you to try to hide because others cannot see you. It doesn't give you permission to roll a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Only the DM can say whether you may roll an ability check or not and that's when the DM feels what the player described he or she wanted to do has an uncertain outcome and a chance of failure.

It grants the conditions for the player to declare he is taking the Hide action on his turn. The mechanics for such an action are to make a stealth roll and to compare it to the passive perception scores of those who could possible detect him.

By default the player has described his intent, and the outcome is going to be uncertain as the result of the Dexterity(Stealth) roll might be higher or lower than the passive perception scores of the enemies.

Not everything needs to be DM adjudicated, some things are clearly spelled out.

 

[GlobeOfDankness]

Just to be clear, invisibility allows you to try to hide because others cannot see you. It doesn't give you permission to roll a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Only the DM can say whether you may roll an ability check or not and that's when the DM feels what the player described he or she wanted to do has an uncertain outcome and a chance of failure.

yes, yes, and Y is a vowel.