Thieves’ cant?

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

Maybe a language skill with a synergy bonus for 5 or more ranks in Bluff or Perform?

 

[Crothian]

Thieves' Cant is covered thoroughly in Gary Gygax's The Canting Crew.

Brilliantly covered I might say. The rules part of that book have some problems, but the bulding of a guild, the thieves can't part, the hand signals part...all great.

I'd make it as both. People that want easy can use it as a language, people that want more complex can use it as a skill.

 

[IronWolf]

I'd go with thieves cant as language. One would assume a thief learns the basics from his own guild, variations being akin to various dialects of the same language but usually understandable between guilds.

 

[Shadowdancer]

I'd say it has to be treated as a seperate language rather than a performance skill. But a synergy bonus for 5 ranks of Bluff or Perform sounds good.

In addition to The Canting Crew, Thieves Cant as a language is covered in the new Book of Roguish Luck, IIRC. And there are other d20 Rogue/Thief supplements that at least give a few examples of words and phrases. Can't remember which ones right now -- they're at home and I'm at work. But I know I've seen it in some supplements.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Thieves Cant (or flash lingo) is a language, possibly dialectal in nature, but more likely is merely a slang. It incorporates the use of rhyming slang, and while the message is largely incomprehensible to the untrained ear it is not used solely by members of the subeconomy. Different cities have different cants, use Knowlege (local) to understand what is being said.

The Auld Grump, tip o' the titfer, eh?

 

[Storyteller01]

Personally, since it's based on current language (thanks Auld Grump), I'd say treat it as the thieves are speaking normally. No additional ranks in anything to use it, per se. Treat it as an automatic language for rogues/thugs [see FFG], with differences considered for different guilds. It can't be learned normally, much like the Druidic secret language.

Those that are listening in, however, will have to make an opposed Sense Motive/Bluff check to catch the true meaning of the conversation. The theives would use the roll from the thief with the lowest bonus to Bluff, with a possilbe +2 cooperation bonus for each involved in the convo (per the co-operation rules). You can balance this out with the fact that large groups of thgs/rogues tend to stand out.

For rogues not in a guild, you can rule that they learned the cant of the prominent guild (odds are, your not operating w/o their permission).

Rogues from another guild would gain a bonus to the roll (DM fiat on this one). Then agian, rogues avoid unknown rogues (and they ALWAYS seem to know...), so a Listen check may be needed as well.

The Dragon Star suppliment 'Smuggler Run' (the only one adapted to 3.5) gives an Innuendo feat. It gives a +4 to Bluff and Sense motive checks when passing or receiving messages. Both the thieves and the law may find this useful (a ranger with Innuendo...?).

Hope this helps.

 

[lordbasl]

Thieves Cant (or flash lingo) is a language, possibly dialectal in nature, but more likely is merely a slang. It incorporates the use of rhyming slang, and while the message is largely incomprehensible to the untrained ear it is not used solely by members of the subeconomy. Different cities have different cants, use Knowlege (local) to understand what is being said.

The Auld Grump, tip o' the titfer, eh?

Rhyming slang...kind of like Hip Hop...This has possibilities.

 

[GMSkarka]

Rhyming slang...kind of like Hip Hop...This has possibilities.

Um...not exactly.

Hip Hop is rhyming, while using slang.

Rhyming Slang is a cockney slang in which a word is replaced by a word that rhymes with it, or with the second word in a phrase using it. Like "Butcher's" is slang for "Look", because "Look" rhymes with "Butcher's Hook." So, "I'll take a butcher's" is "I'll take a look."

It's constantly changing, but there are occasional attempts to codify the more common aspects of it, such as this website.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Yep, the fact that not all rhyming slang actually rhymes can make it confusing as heck.

Tip o' the titfer means tip o' the hat, because titfer tat (the obscenity blocker does not like the more proper spelling and spacing...) rhymes with hat, veven though titfer does not. Trouble means wife because trouble and strife rhymes with wife. (Any other interpretation is purely coincidental. Purely.)

There are some good books about cant and flash lingo in the Victorian and Elizabethian periods. Do some digging and you will find them.

The Auld Grump